Persian gostar/گستر “spread” & bastar/بستر”bedding”

PersoLatin

Senior Member
UK
Persian - Iran
Are these two words related to one another & are they also cognate with PIE *stere-, also any ideas about the prefixes go- & be-?

Many thanks.
 
  • Derakhshan

    Senior Member
    Arabic (BH), Persian
    Simply, they are both from Middle Persian wistar. Middle Iranian wi-/wa- became New Iranian bi-/ba-, but also often gu-.
    e.g. warāz > gorāz "boar"

    You actually see a similar change from Latin to Romance:

    Latin vāstāre > Italian guastare "to ruin"

    any ideas about the prefixes go- & be-?
    wi- is an Indo-Iranian preverb, I'm unsure of its meaning.
     
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    fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    According to Johnny Cheung, these words are from the same root, but with different prefixes: MP wistar, NP gustar have the prefix wi-, but bistar seems to have the prefix abi-. The IE source has been reconstructed as *sterH3 “to spread”, as in English "strew".
     

    Derakhshan

    Senior Member
    Arabic (BH), Persian
    That is curious since wistar "bedding" is attested in MP, while *abistar isn't. But then I'm not sure how else to explain the ba- instead of expected gu- (contrary to what I had said earlier, I can't think of instances where original wi- didn't become gu- in NP).

    wi- is an Indo-Iranian preverb, I'm unsure of its meaning.
    wi- means "apart, in two".
     

    fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    That is curious since wistar "bedding" is attested in MP, while *abistar isn't. But then I'm not sure how else to explain the ba- instead of expected gu- (contrary to what I had said earlier, I can't think of instances where original wi- didn't become gu- in NP).
    There are a few words where MP wi- gives NP bi-, e.g. wigrād > bīdār, or widest > bidast, but gu- is very much more common.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    wi- means "apart, in two".
    That sounds like prefix bi- which in NP means without c.f English -less. However I can not see how it can be classed as a preverb unless baster and gustar are variations of the same word, gu- makes complete sense in gustar “stretch away/apart”, and also (bi-) in bastar/بستر “spread out” in this case bedding.
     
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    Derakhshan

    Senior Member
    Arabic (BH), Persian
    wigrād > bīdār
    This looks like a case of -igr- > -īr-, followed by metathesis of the r and d. This also shows us that the change -igr- > -īr- (and -agr- > -ēr-) preceded in time the change wi- > gu-.

    That sounds like prefix bi- which in NP means without c.f English -less.
    بى "without" comes from MP abē.

    However I can not see how it can be classed as a preverb unless baster and gustar are variations of the same word, gu- makes complete sense in gustar “stretch away/apart”, and also (bi-) in bastar/بستر “spread out” in this case bedding.
    It is a preverb, and the noun would derive from the verb (deverbal noun). In Middle Persian wistarag "bedding" is attested alongside wistar, with noun-forming suffix -ag.
     
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    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    It is a preverb, and the noun would derive from the verb (deverbal noun). In Middle Persian wistarag "bedding" is attested alongside wistar, with noun-forming suffix -ag
    I believe it is a preverb but the same as gu- on gustar, OK it not bi/بی then is it be-ب as in NP in بگیر/be-gir?
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    In MP we only have wistar then I assume, at the time, the consequent NP variants were pronounced with gu & bi, and NP with Arabic letters allowed wistar & many other words, starting with wi-, to be written based on their actual pronunciations, if my assumption is near enough correct then things are clearer.

    Please feel free to correct any part of the above.

    but here we have the Indo-Iranian preverb vi- generally indicating movement away or apart.
    So vi- bi- is a preverb meaning movement away, is there any other examples of this verbal prefix please?

    Also does preverb gu- also mean away, out, and is there other examples of it?
     
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