Persian: suffix ار، گار

< Previous | Next >

PersoLatin

Senior Member
UK
Persian - Iran
Why do we sayپرستار but آموزگار or پروردگار? Why are the latter two different and shouldn't they be آموزار or پروردار, or, why isn't the former پرستگار?

I always assumed گار was a variation of کار (work), and means 'doer' (گر is the short form of it), but I doubt this now. Could it be that پروردگار and آموزگار were originally پرورده گار and آموزه گار and گ was added to ار, to act as a liaison between ه and آ ? We see the same liaison in ستاره گان and بچگانه etc.
 
  • Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    These are interesting questions!
    PersoLatin said:
    Could it be that پروردگار and آموزگار were originally پرورده گار and آموزه گار and گ was added to ار, to act as a liaison between ه and آ ?
    This seems to be what Platts indicates in the following entries:
    P پروردگار parwarda-gār, vulg. parwardigār (parwarda+kār), s.m. The Cherisher, the Provider, Providence, an epithet of the Deity.
    P آفريدگار āfrīda-gār, afrīd-gār (see آفريده āfrīda), s.m. The Creator.
    However, this doesn't appear to explain why it is خریدار and مددگار.
    P پرستار parastār [parast, q.v.+ār], s.m. Adorer, worshipper; servant, slave.
    P آر ār (fr. āwardan, 'to bring,'—used in comp.), part. adj.& s.m. Bringing; bringer (e.g. bar-ār, 'fruit-bringing,' 'fertile').
    P گار gār [Zend kāra; S. कार], A suffix denoting 'Maker, doer, agent' (e.g. ḵẖidmat-gār; parhez-gār; gunah-gār,& c., q.v.).
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    Thank you Alfaaz.

    Interesting that in Urdu you use gâr where in Persian, we use kâr مددكار گناهكار پرهيزكار خدمتكار, I wonder why?

    parvardé(parwarda) & âfaridé(âfarida) are past participles & mean 'nourished' & 'created', and to me, they don't make sense as descriptions of God, the most meaningful & literal, is پروردن گار & آفريدن گار, maybe that's how they all started.

    âr does come from âvardan (âwardan) but in the following cases, I believe âr is a specific (& not related to âvardan) suffix added only to past stem of verbs: raftâr, goftâr, didâr, kerdâr, pendâr, in the same way that â is added to present stem of verbs like tavânâ, šenavâ, guyâ, ravâ or rasâ, again similar to ân added to present stem of verbs: ravân, tavân, bârân, deraxšân.

    To me, parastâr falls into the verb category and so its âr is not derived âvardan.
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    PersoLatin said:
    âr does come from âvardan (âwardan) but in the following cases, I believe âr is a specific (& not related to âvardan) suffix added only to past stem of verbs: raftâr, goftâr, didâr, kerdâr, pendâr, in the same way that â is added to present stem of verbs like tavânâ, šenavâ, guyâ, ravâ or rasâ, again similar to ân added to present stem of verbs: ravân, tavân, bârân, deraxšân.

    To me, parastâr falls into the verb category and so its âr is not derived âvardan.
    Thanks for the detailed explanation! This was a bit confusing as the entries in Platts (which might be dated/incorrect) listed taar as the suffix in many of these words, tracing it back to a Sanskrit cognate perhaps...!? However, this taar doesn't seem to be listed by itself. Examples: raftaar, guftaar, diidar, etc.
    PersoLatin said:
    Interesting that in Urdu you use gâr where in Persian, we use kâr مددكار گناهكار پرهيزكار خدمتكار, I wonder why?
    A similar question was asked in Urdu-Persian: k/g variation in words by Qureshpor SaaHib and Faylasoof SaaHib suggested that this variation might have actually occurred in Persian before being transferred to/inherited by Urdu:
    Qureshpor said:
    In Urdu, the following words (and no doubt there will be other examples) have a gaaf in them whereas in Persian, they are written with a kaaf.

    madad-gaar>>> madad-kaar
    ...
    On the other hand there are the following (and perhaps more) words which have a kaaf in Urdu but gaaf in Persian"!

    kashuudan>>>gashuudan
    ...
    Is there a rhyme or reason behind this?
    Faylasoof said:
    Not true! The gaaf - kaaf shift can already been in Persian itself! Just look up the above words in Steingass’ and Hayyim’s Persian lexicons online and you’ll find the above words with both gaaf and kaaf!

    Even my ‘90s Aryanpour Persian dictionary presents both gaaf and kaaf for the ones I did look up. However, from Iranian Persophones I almost always hear the kaaf forms!
    (The interesting discussion continues on and can be read in the other thread.)

    Here is another thread where this topic briefly arose:
    Urdu/Persian: kunandah کنندہ.
    Faylasoof said:
    kunandah ; kaar / gaar; kaarindah; kun - common root.

    The above don’t seem to be completely interchangeable, despite synonymous meanings for some at least. This might perhaps be due to matters of convention and / usage giving different meanings:
    ...
    kaar / gaar
    = doer (also, kaar = work) – aafriid gaar آفرید گار = The Creator = taxliiqkaar تخلیق كار but never taxliiq gaar تخلیق گار .
    ...
    PG, by the looks of it I think this a very complicated question to answer! So I’d go back to my above statement of conventions and usage.
    Lastly, in Persian: List of Suffixes, Affixes, and Roots Aryamp SaaHib provided a detailed list of Persian suffixes, etc. that includes all three, but unfortunately doesn't explain why one is used in place of another!
    Aryamp said:
    20 – پسوند ( ار ) = پرستار ، خریدار ، دیدار
    ...
    22 – پسوند ( کار ) = تراش کار ، طلب کار
    23 – پسوند ( گار ) = آموزگار ، پرهیزگار
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    Lastly, in Persian: List of Suffixes, Affixes, and Roots Aryamp SaaHib provided a detailed list of Persian suffixes,
    âr in خریدار ، دیدار can not stand on its own and is a suffix specific for verbs therefore دیدار & خریدار are not compound words, whereas کار can stand on its own which make تراش کار ، طلب کار compound words. (although گار is a variation of کار, it is not used on its own)

    گِرفتار gereftâr - (object/result of grabbing/taking/holding) involved, captive, preoccupied, stricken
    گُفتار goftâr (result of saying, what is said) speech, sermon, word
    دیدار didâr (action of seeing) visit
    رَفتار raftâr (action/manner of doing/going) behaviour, manner, conduct, demeanour
    کِردار kerdâr (result of acting/doing) action
    پِندار pendâr (result of thinking) thought
    نوشتار neveŝtâr (result of writing) a writing, written word
    ..
    ..
    However خَریدار doesn't follow the same rule:

    خَریدار xaridâr means 'buyer' but should be the 'result of buying' or 'what's been bought' i.e. the 'shopping'

    پَرستار parastâr is made up of present stem of پَرستیدن and ار but I can't find any other word of this type e.g. خُورار ‏نِویسار ‏گیرار گوار بینار are not used.

    I'd like to know the opinion of others on both پَرستار خَریدار as appears in classic Persian, and means buyer & nurse.

    but unfortunately doesn't explain why one is used in place of another!
    In Persian: List of Suffixes, Affixes, and Roots thread, Aryamp supplied a wikipedia link too and the following is the relevant section:

    ار(۱): این پسوند به بن ماضی می‌چسبد و صفت فاعلی می‌سازد. مانند: برخوردار، گرفتار، مردار، نوشتار. - 10
    11 - .ار(۲): این پسوند به بن ماضی می‌چسبد و اسم مصدر می‌سازد. مانند: گفتار، رفتار، شنیدار.
    10 says for ار, a suffix which is added to past stem of verbs and makes an verbal adjective
    11 says for ار, a suffix which is added to past stem of verbs and makes a gerund

    In fact examples given 10 & 11 are the same category (past stem + ار) and the explanations are not consistent with the actual meanings.
     

    Derakhshan

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Bahrain), Persian
    parvardé(parwarda) & âfaridé(âfarida) are past participles & mean 'nourished' & 'created', and to me, they don't make sense as descriptions of God, the most meaningful & literal, is پروردن گار & آفريدن گار, maybe that's how they all started.
    It's the same way خواستگار means 'suitor', not 'one who is sought'.

    Btw, can anyone explain روزگار?
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top