Persian, Urdu: ۔گانه -gāna (suffix)

marrish

Senior Member
اُردو Urdu
Hi,

I have come across a curious word which is چهارگانه in Persian and چہارگانہ in Urdu (just typographic variations). This raises the question:

What is the difference between چھارگانه and بچه گانه with respect to the suffix? I have some faint idea about it but would like to have it explained. For which I thank you in advance.
 
  • PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    ^ گانه is a variation of the adverb making suffix انه which is equivalent to the English 'ly'. It is usually used on nouns/adjectives that end in the Persian silent h and long vowels. So دختر becomes دخترانه but بچه becomes بچه گانه and جدا becomes جداگانه. Technically, attaching گانه to چهار is wrong but I suppose the patten has been copied from the correctly formed يگانه دوگانه دهگانه سه گانه
     
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    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    بچگانہ

    بچّہ ← بچّگان ← بچّگانہ

    چہارگانہ
    P گانه gāna [prob. fr. Zend gaona = S. गुण], adj. affix, Fold (it is affixed to numerals, and is often redundant, e.g. panj-gāna, 'five-fold'; 'five').
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    بچّہ ← بچّگان ← بچّگانہ
    Hi Alfaaz, in modern Persian you do see both بچه گانه and بچگانه, I only remember the latter during my educational years. I think the former i.e. بچه گانه is much easier to read without knowing the intricacies of the language. But if the same is applied to بچگی to get بچه گی, life becomes a little more complicated, we then have to split ستارگان, زندگی etc. so :confused:
     
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    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    PersoLatin said:
    ... Technically, attaching گانه to چهار is wrong but I suppose the patten has been copied from the correctly formed يگانه دوگانه دهگانه سه گانه
    Wouldn't formations like these (یک گانہ، چہار گانہ، پنج گانہ، ہشت گانہ، وغیرہ) actually be correct, since the گانہ in these appears to be an affix different from the گانہ in بچہ گانہ...?
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    Wouldn't formations like these (یک گانہ، چہار گانہ، پنج گانہ، ہشت گانہ، وغیرہ) actually be correct, since the گانہ in these appears to be an affix different from the گانہ in بچہ گانہ...?
    I don't believe گانه is different is these at all as in Persian it adds the same meaning as انه, to a word. Also, in modern Persian there's no یک گانہ, and يگانه is what is used, this could be because either انه was added to; an old form of یک (without ک, maybe يه) hence the addition of گ, or to یک i.e. یکانه but ک has now been changed to گ, but looking at دوگانه or سه گانه, I think the former is more likely.
     
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    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    PersoLatin said:
    Also, in modern Persian there's no یک گانہ, and يگانه is what is used ...
    Please excuse the inclusion of یک گانہ in my previous post. After checking dictionary entries (Platts: here & Urdu Lughat: here), I see that it is actually یگانہ.

    However, the question of گانہ being a separate suffix in such examples was due to two reasons/observations:

    • The entry in Platts quoted above in post #3.
    • This thread (also created by marrish) based on گُنا, which might be a cognate of گانہ...?
    marrish SaaHib could hopefully elucidate whether the two threads are related or not!

    Questions: Is there any difference in meaning between چَوگُنا from the other thread and چہارگانہ from this thread? Where would چہار چند stand?
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    The entry in Platts quoted above in post #3.
    I am afraid Platts has got this wrong, at least with regards to Persian.

    This thread (also created by marrish) based on گُنا, which might be a cognate of گانہ...?
    From the other thread:
    So just to make sure i understand, chaugunaa it is, not ...NRaa
    I saw this earlier and couldn't work out whether 'chaugunaa' was the Persian چگونه - ĉeguné/ĉoguna, meaning 'how', which is made up of چه- ĉé + گونه - guné/guna.

    guné/guna (made up of gun + the Persian suffix /é/ or /a/) means 'face', 'gun' itself means state/حالت/mood/condition and is not related to گانه which is a suffix that doesn't stand on its own.
     
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    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    PersoLatin said:
    I saw this earlier and couldn't work out whether 'chaugunaa' was the Persian چگونه - ĉeguné/ĉoguna, meaning 'how', which is made up of چه- ĉé + گونه - guné/guna.
    (Persian چہ گونہ is different.) چَوگُنا - chau-gunaa is composed of the following two words and means four-fold (similar to Persian origin چہار چند mentioned above):
    H چو चौ ćau [Prk. चउ; S. चतुर्], adj. Four (used only in comp.): ...

    ćau-gunā, adj. (f. -ī), Four times, four-fold, quadruple
    H گنا गुणा guṇā, or गुना gunā [S. गुण+कः], s.m. (f. gunī) Fold, times (suffixed to numerals to form multiplicatives; e.g. sau-gunā, 'a hundred-fold');—multiplication; the rule of multiplication ...
    To make the matter (perhaps!?) more complicated, Platts lists a Persian form as well (or it could be that this spelling is just used in Urdu!?):
    P گونه gūna [Pehl. gūn; Zend gaona; S. गुण], s.m. Colour; kind, sort, species; form, figure, fashion; mode, manner:

    gūna, or yak-gūna, adj. Single, simple;—peculiar;—a little (syn. thorā-sā):—du-gūna, adj. Two-fold, double (cf. H. guṇā).
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    Steingass and Hayyim's Persian Dictionary entries for گانه:
    گانه gāna, A particle used after numerals to impart an indefinite or distributive meaning, as haft-gāna, About seven; sevenfold.
    گانه Suffix used at the end of a cardinal to give it a definite nature, and to allow the used of a pl. noun before it. Ex. دلائل شش گانه the six reasons; انجیل های چ‍ﮩ‍ار گانه (Ar. اناجیل اربعه) the four gospels, where for 'four gospels' we would say چ‍ﮩ‍ار انجیل
     
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