Persian: Uses and meanings of ساخت، ساختار، ساخت و ساز، ساختمان، سازمان

Shih-Wei

New Member
Chinese - Taiwan
سلام به همه،
می شود لطفا توضیح بدهید معنی‌ها و کاربردهای واژه‌ها را که از ریشه‌ی «ساخت» یا «ساز» آمده، مانند ساخت، ساختار، ساخت و ساز، ساختمان، سازمان؟
به انگلیسی و فرانسوی می توان هر کدام را
structure یا construction
ترجمه کرد. ولی به نظر می رسد که معنی‌ها و کاربردها آنها باید با هم متفاوت باشند. بر طبق برداشت من
ساخت، ساختن است
ساخت و ساز، انجام کار ساختن است
ساختمان و سازمان، طرز و قاعده ساختن است
ساختار، سیستم روابط بین اجزاء یک مجموعه است

می دانم که ساختمان هم به عمارت اشاره می کند و سازمان به بنیاد، ولی بیشتر به معنی‌های اصلی و عمومیِ آنها علاقه‌مند هستم.

تشکر
 
  • PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    ساخت، ساختار، ساخت و ساز، ساختمان، سازمان
    ساخت و ساز - the process of building houses/dwellings, also collusion
    ساختار - structure, the make-up of anything physical
    ساختمان - building, e.g. offices, houses, high rises, any structure of that type
    سازمان - organisation, establishment سازمان دهی/organising
    ساخت - past stem of ساختن, made (ساخت چین/made in China)
    ساز - present stem of ساختن, (also means a musical instrument ساز زدن/to play an instrument)
     
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    Shih-Wei

    New Member
    Chinese - Taiwan
    ساخت و ساز - the process of building houses/dwellings, also collusion
    ساختار - structure, the make-up of anything physical
    ساختمان - building, e.g. offices, houses, high rises, any a structure of that type
    سازمان - organisation, establishment سازمان دهی/organising
    ساخت - past stem of ساختن, made (ساخت چین/made in China)
    ساز - present stem of ساختن, (also means a musical instrument ساز زدن/play an instrument)

    Thank you for the answer. I'm thinking about a suspected abstract meaning of ساختمان، سازمان and ساخت, which I encountered in the reading of linguistic. The nowadays common meanings of ساختمان، سازمان and ساز should be different or derived from these abstract ones.

    Examples

    The following occurence of ساختمان looks more like "construction" in English:

    نماگرفت از 2021-07-20 17-40-52.png

    (دستور زبان فارسی، پرویز ناتل خانلری، ۱۳۴۳)



    The following occurence of ساخت looks like ساختار and "structure":
    از جمله عواملِ مهمِ اثرگذارِ بیرونی در زبان، گِرَوِش به دینی تازه، پدید آمدنِ جهان‌بینیِ تازه، و دگرگونیهایِ اساسی در ساختِ زندگیِ اقتصادی و اجتماعی است.
    (نگاهی دیگر به دگردیسی زبان فارسی، داریوش آشوری، ۱۳۷۲)​

    In the following paragraph from wikipedia (fa) page ریشه شناسی, there is an occurence of سازمان:
    نماگرفت از 2021-07-20 18-58-24.png

    However, the سازمان doesn't look like a specific organisation (as a group of people working in some objectives).

    Moreover, in the Persian-French dictionary (فرهنگ معاصر جیبی: فارسی-فرانسه، فرانسه-فارسی، محمدرضا پارسایار) we have:
    ساخت - fabrication; construction
    ساختار - construction
    and in the Persian-English dictionary (فرهنگ معاصر کیمیا: فارسی-انگلیسی، کریم امامی) we find:
    ساخت - the act of making sth, constructing sth; construction, make, structure
    ساختار - structure
    ساختمان - the act of building, construction; construction; a building
    ساخت و ساز - construction work, development activity

    There seems to be apparent overlaps between the meanings of these words. I'm precisely wondering about this zone of overlap. What are the relations between them and the way to differenciate the uses of them. What does their morphology tell us about their meanings?
     
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    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    he following occurence of ساختمان looks more like "construction" in English:

    نماگرفت از 2021-07-20 17-40-52.png

    (دستور زبان فارسی، پرویز ناتل خانلری، ۱۳۴۳)
    I think 'structure' is more accurate.

    ساخت - fabrication; construction
    ساختار - construction
    and in the Persian-English dictionary (فرهنگ معاصر کیمیا: فارسی-انگلیسی، کریم امامی) we find:
    ساخت - the act of making sth, constructing sth; construction, make, structure
    ساختار - structure
    ساختمان - the act of building, construction; construction; a building
    ساخت و ساز - construction work, development activity
    The examples I provided are extracted from day-to-day use of these words in the language, dictionaries have a habit of including all possible meanings, sometimes to appear more comprehensive than the best one before them and of course they don't always provide context.

    On the point of overlapping meanings, the same issue exists with construct/build, construction/building, structure/building.

    I think it will more productive if you can provide a few sentences with different contexts and ask for the best word that fits the particular context.
     
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    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    I am not sure I understand the question clearly enough, but can only say that I am not aware of basic meanings for ساختن beyond the following three: (1) to build or make, (2) to organize or prepare, (3) to work in harmony, collaborate, coalesce. In the latter usage the verb becomes intransitive where there is no need for a direct object. (Example: من و ساقی به هم سازیم و بنیادش براندازیم.)

    To my mind, any other sense, be it abstract or concrete, must be a shade of these three meanings, a derivation. Also, again to my (indigenous) mind, ساختن, standing outside a sentence/a context, does appear rather abstract.

    I hope this helps a bit.
     

    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    ساخت و ساز - the process of building houses/dwellings, also collusion

    PersoLatin, are you maybe confusing ساخت و ساز with ساخت و پاخت, an informal construct for "collusion"?ساخت و ساز to my knowledge always just means "development", 'material building-up'.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    PersoLatin, are you maybe confusing ساخت و ساز with ساخت و پاخت, an informal construct for "collusion"?ساخت و ساز to my knowledge always just means "development", 'material building-up'.
    No I wasn’t, although the version you mentioned was in my thoughts too, but didn’t use it for the fact it’s not formal.

    I’m sure it is used in the context of underhanded dealings, with ساز meaning collaboration, maybe others can tell us if it is also used in that way, although I can’t find any myself.
     
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