No, the vocative is not یا but ا.Hi
Was the vocative ending ا originally يا, as in Arabic?
Like كريما which occurs in a famous poem by Saadi.
As can be seen in these examples یارا, حافظا, خدایا and كريما, please note خدایا is خدا+ی+ا where ی always acts as a liaison before a long vowel, here the 'ا' article.Like كريما which occurs in a famous poem by Saadi.
That’s interesting & very likely as it is used only formally, in less formal situations ای/ey is used which, to me , is more authentic Persian.The Persian vocative particle ا could be a borrowing from Aramaic, cf מַלְכָּא malkā 'O king!'.
I don't know how one can say one is "more authentic Persian" than the other. For me, both are equally authentic Persian, whatever the origin of the vocative suffix.That’s interesting & very likely as it is used only formally, in less formal situations ای/ey is used which, to me , is more authentic Persian.
A very good question.Has it survived in any of the other Semitic languages?
The fact it is only used in formal & poetic Persian points to its non-Persian origin, I believe that’s a fair comment to make on a linguistic forum, my observation may not be accurate or correct but I’m hoping someone will enlighten us all.I don't know how one can say one is "more authentic Persian"
What about خدایا? Isn't this used in ordinary everyday speech?The fact it is only used in formal & poetic Persian points to its non-Persian origin, I believe that’s a fair comment to make on a linguistic forum, my observation may not be accurate or correct but I’m hoping someone will enlighten us all.
Yes it is. In any case everyday speech would be a very bad measure for the origin of the words.What about خدایا? Isn't this used in ordinary everyday speech?
This has not been suggested by me.Yes it is. In any case everyday speech would be a very bad measure for the origin of the words.
Everyday spoken speech is way way older than formal speech, formal speech is standardised spoken speech after all.Yes it is. In any case everyday speech would be a very bad measure for the origin of the words.
Spoken language is dynamic and ever-changing. We cannot draw any conclusion about the origin of words or expressions based on their current usage status in colloquial speech. It is just wrong to say some word or affix is of foreign origin if its current usage is limited to formal or poetic language, especially when we're dealing with a time scale of more than a thousand years! By that logic thousands of Persian words would have to be considered non-Persian, and vice versa.Everyday spoken speech is way way older than formal speech, formal speech is standardised spoken speech after all.
Thank you for clarifying this fdb.The suffix -ā is common in poetry, not only after nouns but also after verbs and other words, e.g. in guftā “he said”. It is not (exclusively) vocative, at best mildly emphatic. It has no parallel in Semitic
The determinate suffix is already in Old Aramaic. It does not occur in Persian until the Middle Persian stage.Thank you for clarifying this fdb.
Could the Aramaic ending mentioned in post #4 (מַלְכָּא malkā) be of Persian origin instead?
How does one know MP didn't borrow it from Old Aramaic?The determinate suffix is already in Old Aramaic. It does not occur in Persian until the Middle Persian stage.
Possible yes, likely no.Thank you.
How does one know MP didn't borrow it from Old Aramaic?