Persian Xana (home)

< Previous | Next >
  • bragpipes

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    Arabic خيمة is xeyme or xême (ê as in pay). That first vowel wouldn't be a long "a" (as xane) in any dialect or situation (inflection, plural, diminutive, etc).

    Having that said, there is the Arabic word xām (he "tented", he set up tent).

    I don't know much about Germanic, but these are some thoughts:

    1. The meaning is obviously different. xane is house/home, xême is tent. Eastern Arabic does not use xême as "home" even when someone lives in it as his primary residence. Xême is the structure, it remains xême even when rolled up in the back of a truck. Rural Moroccan dialects do use xême as "home" but Iranian is influenced by Eastern Arabic, not far, far Western. Xême, in Eastern Arabic, is used for tented kiosks, refugee camps, street-fair tents, bazaars, camping, outdoor cafes, etc. Saying "my xême" is more likely to mean "my kiosk" than "my home."

    2. If Persian did indeed take the word, change the vowel and the consonant, there would be traces of that in Gulf languages (1. Iranian spoken in Iraq/Gulf, Arabic spoken in the Gulf with a lot of Iranian vocabulary). There is none of that.

    3. Basic words like home/house, body parts, sun/moon, etc. are the least likely to be borrowed. Xane also exists in Kurdish dialects as xanû and xanî. It is exactly what one would expect from an Iranian word and its variations among different languages/dialects.
     

    CyrusSH

    Banned
    Persian - Iran
    Thanks for your reply, for the same reason that the meaning of a word can be changed in an Arabic dialect, it could be changed in Persian too, as you read here, not only in Arabic but Harsusi (spoken in Oman), Amharic and Tigre, xaima, xoma, xima, ... also means "hut", in Persian kume means "hut": کومه - Wiktionary

    Of course I myself believe this word has an Indo-European origin and relates to proto-Germanic *xaimaz, so the Arabic one could be a loanword.
     

    ahvalj

    Senior Member
    Realizing that this wouldn't be convincing for you, I still would like to point out humbly that *xaı̯maz is cognate to the Lithuanian šeima and Slavic sěmьja "family" and thus represents a root with the initial palatalized velar, *kʲeı̯-, which should have regularly produced **ϑai-/ϑi- in Old Persian and **sē-/si- in the classical language. All these words are usually etymologized from *kʲeı̯- "to be lying" (Sanskrit śete = Avestan saēte ≈ Greek κεῖται "he lies").
     

    CyrusSH

    Banned
    Persian - Iran
    ahvalj, instead of what should be, it is better that we talk about what it is, in Persian sam doesn't mean "home" but Persian xam (خم) means certainly "home": خم | پارسی ویکی

    We read in Shahnameh:

    سپه پهلوان بود با شاه جم
    به خم اندرون شاد و خرم بهم
     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    ahvalj, instead of what should be, it is better that we talk about what it is, in Persian sam doesn't mean "home" but Persian xam (خم) means certainly "home": خم | پارسی ویکی
    What follows from what ahvalj is that Persian (being a Satem language) cannot have to a cognate starting with x-. You have to look for word starting with s- for possible cognates. The apparent root meaning is "be lying". I don't know why you are changing the subject and com up with xam but xana means house. Home means place where you live and can apply to entire towns and even countries. The common meaning in Germanic seems to be village, settlement. Home=house is a derived meaning and is restricted to mean house where one lives and not just any house.
     

    ahvalj

    Senior Member
    ahvalj, instead of what should be, it is better that we talk about what it is, in Persian sam doesn't mean "home" but Persian xam (خم) means certainly "home": خم | پارسی ویکی

    We read in Shahnameh:

    سپه پهلوان بود با شاه جم
    به خم اندرون شاد و خرم بهم
    Do you realize that you are postulating not only x:x but also ai:a (خم) and ai:ā (خانه)? In the past weeks you've been presenting what you considered cognate Persian and Germanic words with several non-trivial sound correspondences, but I don't remember among them any entries where the Persian a or ā would correspond to the Germanic i-diphtongs. Have I missed something?
     

    fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    Persian xāna “house” can hardly be connected with Arabic xayma “tent”. They have only the initial consonant in common.

    xāna can be traced back to Middle Persian xānag, but no further. We also have xān with the same meaning. There is no consensus about their ultimate origin. One view is to connect them with the widespread Persian and Iranian root kan- “to dig”, with irregular spirantalisation of k > x, as in Arabic xandaq “ditch” < Middle Persian kandag “dug”. But the semantic shift of “dugout” > “house” does seem an additional difficulty.

    As an alternative I would propose a connection with Parthian xān, Middle Persian xānīg, New Persian xānī “spring, source”, cognate with Sanskrit khā- with the same meaning. It is also conceivable that there was some contamination between the words for “dig” and “spring”.
     

    bragpipes

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    Also, C1āC2 (c being consonant) verbs produce C1êC2e nouns.

    ṣāḥ (he cried) > ṣêḥe (a cry, a bout of crying)
    ṭāḥ (he fell) > ṭêḥe (a fall)
    šāl (pick up, hold up, remove; lead the singing of muharram procession chant/song, i.e. hold up the crowd/procession, keep them up, keep them going) > šêle (a muharram procession chant/song)

    Xême is the predicted outcome of xām.
     

    fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    Also, C1āC2 (c being consonant) verbs produce C1êC2e nouns.

    ṣāḥ (he cried) > ṣêḥe (a cry, a bout of crying)
    ṭāḥ (he fell) > ṭêḥe (a fall)
    šāl (pick up, hold up, remove; lead the singing of muharram procession chant/song, i.e. hold up the crowd/procession, keep them up, keep them going) > šêle (a muharram procession chant/song)

    Xême is the predicted outcome of xām.
    For the benefit of outsiders: your examples are (colloquial) Arabic. xām is a borrowing from Persian, meaning “raw”. I do not see any connection with xayma “tent”. Or am I missing something?
     

    CyrusSH

    Banned
    Persian - Iran
    We have these Persian words:

    xam (home)
    xanb (room)
    xān (house)
    xom (dome)
    xomp (hump)
    xamidan (to bent, to curve)
    xanbidan (to lean, to be inclined)
    xidan (to stoop)

    No relation between them?!
     

    bragpipes

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    I just wanted to show the grammar (how "sing" produces "song", not introduce new words into the mix.)

    But for the benefit of learners:
    "خام فلانٌ خَيْمًا : أقام بالمكان"
    "خام يخيم وخيم يخيم إذا أقام بالمكان"

    Colloquial Arabic uses "xeyyem" instead of "xām".

    ṣāḥ is "cried" as in shriek/yell/call (call someone, call to God)/invite. "صاح الشَّخصُ وغيرُه : صرخ ، صوَّت في قوَّة"
    "صاح الشَّخصُ به : دعاه وناداه"
    "الصَّيْحَةُ : الصِّيَاحُ ، صُراخ ، صوت عالٍ ؛ نتيجة عاطفة ، كالخوف أو الفرح أو اليأس"

    Fall:
    "طاحَ الشيءُ من يده : سَقَطَ"
    "طَاحَتِ الْحُكُومَةُ : أُقِيلَتْ ، سَقَطَتْ"

    I did not find ṭêḥe in the dictionary I was using for the meaning of "a fall". "ṭāḥ" is listed as to fall, among other meanings, and "ṭêḥe" is listed as the noun of those other meanings.

    But if someone wanted to create the noun "a fall, the result of a slip" out of ṭêḥe, which is a correct and legit term for "fall", ṭêḥe would be the word, even though this particular word is somehow less accepted in Standard Arabic.

    Šāl is lifted:
    "رفعه وحمله"
    شَالَ الحَقِيبَةَ : رَفَعَهَا

    but, šāl, with the usage of "lifting the crowd" leading the chant is very regional and is in zero dictionaries. Having that said, this is the opposite of the aforementioned ṭāḥ scenario - šêle, as a word, is becoming increasingly popular and there is no other word for that kind of song/music. It is used as a song from that genre, similar to how we used canzona, cabaletta and aria without the verb "he aries" "they're canzoning" and so on.

    On second thought, I should've used something more straightforward than the last example. I just wanted to show that the "sing makes song" still exists and is still used even in colloquial, regional and non-standard speech.

    A more legit example is:
    Šāl is lifted, šêle is weight, load, cargo.
     

    Wolverine9

    Senior Member
    American English
    We have these Persian words:

    xam (home)
    xanb (room)
    xān (house)
    xom (dome)
    xomp (hump)
    xamidan (to bent, to curve)
    xanbidan (to lean, to be inclined)
    xidan (to stoop)

    No relation between them?!
    xān doesn't really have anything in common with the other words except the initial consonant. Notice even the vowel in xān is different.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top