Pfeffer ist ein Gewürz, das / der scharf schmeckt (Relativsatz)

[Nicodimo]

I have read this sentence in a german course:

Pfeffer ist ein Gewürz, das scharf schmeckt.

Why is "das" used? If the thing that tastes spicy is "Der Pfeffer"... right? Wouldn't it be more correct to say:

Pfeffer ist ein Gewürz, der scharf schmeckt.

... ?

In general: What is the rule to select the relative pronoun when the main sentence has two subjects?

Thanks.

 

[Hutschi]

It is related to "Gewürz".

Pfeffer ist ein Gewürz (neuter), das scharf schmeckt. (Principle of short binding in German grammar - this means that usually the shortest possible relation distance is correct.) Additionally it relates to "spice" because it defines the kind of spice.

The logic is:

Pepper is a spice that is sharp.






Pfeffer ist ein Gewürz, der scharf schmeckt. (This does not work.)
If you want to say directly that pepper is sharp, following works:

Pfeffer ist ein Gewürz. Er schmeckt scharf.

 

[Nicodimo]

It is related to "Gewürz".

Pfeffer ist ein Gewürz (neuter), das scharf schmeckt. (Principle of short binding in German grammar - this means that usually the shortest possible relation distance is correct.) Additionally it relates to "spice" because it defines the kind of spice.

The logic is:

Pepper is a spice that is sharp.






Pfeffer ist ein Gewürz, der scharf schmeckt. (This does not work.)
If you want to say directly that pepper is sharp, following works:

Pfeffer ist ein Gewürz. Er schmeckt scharf.

Thanks, Hutschi. Your explanation is very clear.​

​

 

[elroy]

It’s the same in Spanish. I can’t demonstrate this using “la pimienta” and “la especia” because they’re both feminine, so I’ll substitute a different spice:

El azafrán es una especia con la que (con el que ) cocino mucho.

By the way, they’re not both subjects. Only “Pfeffer” is the subject. But it doesn’t matter which one is the subject. What matters is what word the relative clause is modifying. That word is “Gewürz.”

 

[Seiryuu]

As a related question, what if the restrictive clause is being applied to the pepper and not the spice? I've heard that "Pfeffer, der scharf schmeckt, ist ein Gewürz" ("Pepper that is spicy is a spice") is grammatically correct, but I'm guessing putting the relative clause at the end would make it too far from the subject being modified.

 

[JClaudeK]

"Pfeffer, der scharf schmeckt, ist ein Gewürz" ("Pepper that is spicy is a spice") is grammatically correct [...] putting the relative clause at the end would make it too far from the subject being modified.

Cf:

II. Where to position the relative clauses in the sentence
This is easy: the relative clause always mostly comes right after the noun it is describing.

*A minor exception: “dangling verbs”
There is one exception to the above rule: if placing the relative clause right after “its” noun in this way would leave the verb in the main clause dangling at the end of the sentence by itself, the resulting sentence would be awkward to comprehend. In such cases, the verb is usually moved in front of the relative clause.

 

[Hutschi]

"Pfeffer, der scharf schmeckt, ist ein Gewürz" - this is not relevant information, because of:
"Pfeffer, der nicht scharf schmeckt, ist ein Gewürz" can be true, too.

It does give wrong impression.

"Scharf" is only part of "würzig".
I have pepper that is mild.

 

[Seiryuu]

"Pfeffer, der scharf schmeckt, ist ein Gewürz" - this is not relevant information, because of:
"Pfeffer, der nicht scharf schmeckt, ist ein Gewürz" can be true, too.

My question, though it isn't true in real life, was asked as a theoretical example because I wanted to know if the relative clause could be applied elsewhere besides directly after the noun it modifies, which JClaudeK helpfully provided an answer to.

 

[elroy]

I wanted to know if the relative clause could be applied elsewhere besides directly after the noun it modifies

This (long) thread may be of interest.

 

[Gernot Back]

As a related question, what if the restrictive clause is being applied to the pepper and not the spice? I've heard that "Pfeffer, der scharf schmeckt, ist ein Gewürz"

I would always interpret this sentence as a non-restrictive relative clause, never as a restrictive relative clause.

("Pepper that is spicy is a spice")

Hence, the only possible translation into English would be one with commas and which as a relative pronoun:

Pepper, which is spicy, is a spice.​

… or stylistically preferable, although still tautological:

Being spicy, pepper is a spice.​

 

[Nicodimo]

It’s the same in Spanish. I can’t demonstrate this using “la pimienta” and “la especia” because they’re both feminine, so I’ll substitute a different spice:

El azafrán es una especia con la que (con el que ) cocino mucho.

By the way, they’re not both subjects. Only “Pfeffer” is the subject. But it doesn’t matter which one is the subject. What matters is what word the relative clause is modifying. That word is “Gewürz.”

Thanks a lot. The comparison with Spanish, in this example, is very appropriate. You are very right.