Phase esquisse

prinjon

Senior Member
French from Paris area
How to translate this "stage" which is the first draft of plans/specs during the whole design stage during the construction of a building ?

It comes from French law (loi MOP) which defines the different official stages that shall occur during a standard building construction process.

My try : Initial draft design stage.
 
  • L'irlandais

    Senior Member
    Ireland: English-speaking ♂
    Careful cropje_jnr, for me the different "planning stages" are Stages D and E in UK Preparation of design proposals for submission to Planning and Building Regulation authorities. This is more or less Dossier de demande de permis de construire DPC in France.
    I suggest "planning stage".
    Hello prinjon,
    Given that the French building industry is very different from that of us "Anglo-Saxons", equivalents don't really exist.
    RIBA plan of work doesn't include all the same elements as it's french "equivalent.
    The project stage known as Avant-Projet sommaire in France corrosponds to some of Stage B (in UK) Discussions to determine Client requirements or brief
    The rest of APS is included under some Stage C (in UK) Which is the preparation of design options or alternatives, for consideration by the client.
    Which is mostly Avant-projet détaillé (APD) here in France

    You need to see if this sketch design stage (ESQ) is mostly APS or more APD or whatever.
     

    prinjon

    Senior Member
    French from Paris area
    Careful cropje_jnr, for me the different "planning stages" are Stages D and E in UK Preparation of design proposals for submission to Planning and Building Regulation authorities. This is more or less Dossier de demande de permis de construire DPC in France.Hello prinjon,
    Given that the French building industry is very different from that of us "Anglo-Saxons", equivalents don't really exist.
    RIBA plan of work doesn't include all the same elements as it's french "equivalent.
    The project stage known as Avant-Projet sommaire in France corrosponds to some of Stage B (in UK) Discussions to determine Client requirements or brief
    The rest of APS is included under some Stage C (in UK) Which is the preparation of design options or alternatives, for consideration by the client.
    Which is mostly Avant-projet détaillé (APD) here in France

    You need to see if this sketch design stage (ESQ) is mostly APS or more APD or whatever.
    ESQ is a stage considered even before APS or APD.

    SO don't know except saying initial sketch stage...
     

    L'irlandais

    Senior Member
    Ireland: English-speaking ♂
    ESQ is a stage considered even before APS or APD.:cross: ...
    J'ai capté!
    Le Loi MOP concerne la maîtrise d'ouvrage publique, ces éléments de mission ne corrospondent pas à ceux que j'ai mentionnés ci-dessus.
    (J'avais donné des éléments de mission de maîtrise d’œuvre dans la privé) (ESQ)-publique égal plus ou moins (APS)-privé.
    Définition des études d'esquisse (ESQ) : i) De proposer une ou plusieurs solutions d'ensemble, puis ii) De vérifier la faisabilité de l'opération
    This is called a Feasibility Study in English.
     

    prinjon

    Senior Member
    French from Paris area
    J'ai capté!
    Le Loi MOP concerne la maîtrise d'ouvrage publique, ces éléments de mission ne corrospondent pas à ceux que j'ai mentionnés ci-dessus.
    (J'avais donné des éléments de mission de maîtrise d’œuvre dans la privé) (ESQ)-publique égal plus ou moins (APS)-privé.
    This is called a Feasibility Study in English.
    :warn: La maitrise d'oeuvre est dans tous les cas d'ordre privé.

    Ces étapes sont toujours possibles quelque soit le projet mais obligatoire pour la maitrise d'ouvrage public.

    And if the Feasibility study is the counterpart of Esquisse stage, is it called so worlwide or only in UK ?
     

    L'irlandais

    Senior Member
    Ireland: English-speaking ♂
    :warn: La maitrise d'oeuvre est dans tous les cas d'ordre privé.
    Well, I learnt something new today, Thank you. :thumbsup:
    Des éléments de mission de maîtrise d’œuvre confiés par des maîtres d’ouvrage publics à des prestataires de droit privé.
    Ces étapes sont toujours possibles quelque soit le projet mais obligatoire pour la maitrise d'ouvrage public.
    I agree a Feasibility Study is generally good practice.
    ...And if the Feasibility study is the counterpart of Esquisse stage, is it called so worlwide or only in UK ?
    The term itself is understood Worldwide. However, given that I have little experience of public-works projects, I can't promise that it doesn't fall into the "legalese" trap.
     

    alliages

    New Member
    français
    This is called a Feasibility Study in English.
    en français on peut traduire ça par "étude de faisabilité". C'est aussi d’après ce que j'ai trouvé sur internet la traduction que l'on peut en faire. Donc c'est trop "tôt" dans une loi MOP, c'est avant/en même temps, que la programmation (création du programme du futur projet)

    Apres recherche, je suis tombé sur Schematic Design qui me semble pas mal ou Preliminary Design

    cf (entre autres) wiki.answers.com/Q/The_various_stages_of_the_construction_process

    mais c'est vrai que l'esquisse en tant que phase de la loi MOP est intraduisible littéralement en anglais
     
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