Plain vs. super-

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ThomasK

Senior Member
Belgium, Dutch
After the main vs. side thread, we need a complementary thread, I think, about the opposition plain/... vs. super/.... How do you express that opposition in your language?

It reminds me of Superman. I suppose the male contributors here are just men, plain men, average men, ordinary (?) men, common (?) men (with a special linguistic interest though), but we are NOT Superman, I think, not even supermen. (Or are you???). Like the lower (?) courts and the Supreme Court, the highest...

Background: Apmoy70 referred to "arch" as in archbishop, meaning something like "main" indeed, in the above-mentioned thread. But then I thought: the funny thing is that a bishop is not a side bishop of the archbishop, he is not a subbishop, etc. The archbishop is "only" the highest/ supreme (?) bishop.
 
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  • Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Russian mostly uses calques from the Classical languages of Church Slavonic origin: sverkh- for super-, verkhóvnyi for superior and výsshiy for supreme (cf. vérkh - top, vérkhniy - upper; vysotá - height, altitude; vysókiy - tall, high). "Plain" is expressed by the "simple" ("prostóy") and "usual" ("obýchnyi", "obyknovénnyi"; cf. "obýchay" - "a custom", "obyknovéniye" - a habit, i.e. something you usually do) words.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Nederlands/Dutch: PLAIN vs SUPER
    - gewoon (usual, habitual), ordinair would be pejorative
    - gemiddeld (average, with middel reminding of French "moyenne"
    - *gemeen used to be the right word, meaning common, but now it is quite pejorative (except in gemeen hebben, to have in common)
    - simpel might be OK but can be understood as pejorative (as in "a simpel mind"
    - eenvoudig is something like simple, but in the sense of common
    - de man/ vrouw in de straat

    - een supermens (a superman/woman), with extraordinary skills, or ... - informal
    - buitengewoon, extraordinary perhaps (as opposed to gewoon, ordinary)
    - bijzonder, special
    - ...
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Russian mostly uses calques from the Classical languages of Church Slavonic origin: sverkh- for super-, verkhóvnyi for superior and výsshiy for supreme (cf. vérkh - top, vérkhniy - upper; vysotá - height, altitude; vysókiy - tall, high). "Plain" is expressed by the "simple" ("prostóy") and "usual" ("obýchnyi", "obyknovénnyi"; cf. "obýchay" - "a custom", "obyknovéniye" - a habit, i.e. something you usually do) words.
    Perfect. Yes, I can see parallels with Dutch and English words. Thanks!
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    Hombre de a pie (something like a man on foot), hombre corriente (average man) or hombre normal y corriente (an average and normal man), hombre ordinario (rarely used), hombre común, hombre al uso (something like typical man)...

    It reminds me of Superman.
    Nietzsche's style?
    The archbishop is "only" the highest/ supreme (?) bishop.
    Not really. The highest bishop is the pope.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Nietzsche's style?

    Not really. The highest bishop is the pope.
    Ha, Übermensch... Had not thought of that.

    But I would not call the Pope a bishop, but of course one can say that he is the bishop of Rome. But he is seldom called that, I believe. I think I could hold that he is not strictly speaking the highest-ranking bishop, but I understand your point.
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Who would be, then?
    The superiority of the Pope is recognized only by Roman Catholics and affiliated churches. In Protestantism and Reformed Catholicism the highest recognized rank is archbishop, in Orthodox Christianity it's patriarch (four patriarchs of the former Pentarchy since the Schism, plus heads of large and/or historically prominent autocephalous churches, like Georgian, Russian or Serbian). Non-Chalcedonians have their heads too.
     

    Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    In fact, come to think of it, the Pope considers himself lower down the scale too in being 'Vicar of Christ'. Yes, vicar to he who believers consider to be 'the Son of God', but his 'helper' is merely a vicar, not a bishop. (That said, I guess the etymology must be that the Pope is acting on behalf of - vicariously - to Christ.)

    You are right, @Awwal12 as regards to Anglican Protestantism and Archbishops. But those of a Non(-)corformist Protestant tradition (Methodists, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Baptists etc etc.) don't recognise the authority of Archbishops. This was part of the reason for the disestablish of the State Church in Wales (which occurred in 1920). The Spiritual Head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Temporal Head is the Queen. There is no State Religion in Wales.
     
    The superiority of the Pope is recognized only by Roman Catholics and affiliated churches. In Protestantism and Reformed Catholicism the highest recognized rank is archbishop, in Orthodox Christianity it's patriarch (four patriarchs of the former Pentarchy since the Schism, plus heads of large and/or historically prominent autocephalous churches, like Georgian, Russian or Serbian). Non-Chalcedonians have their heads too.
    Well in Orthodoxy the role of the Patriarch is not exactly equivalent to the one of the modern Papacy, the Patriarch is the bishop of either (1) an ancient prestigious See, part of the ancient Pentarchy (eg Patriarch of Jerusalen, Patriarch of Antioch), or, (2) large supranational dioceses that exceed national boundaries (eg the Patriarchate of Moscow exercises jurisdiction over the Orthodox Christians living in the former member republics of the USSR, their diasporas abroad, Japan and China). Besides that, the role of the Patriarch is completely different than of the Papacy: Each Patriarch is the president of the local council of bishops/metropolitans (Synod), and the primus inter pares (first among equals) among his brother bishops. He's no Pope (with the modern view of Papacy). Btw we Orthodox do have a Pope, the Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria (apologies for the OT)
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    I'm not catholic but as far as I know in Roman Catholicism, the archbishop is the Bishop of the most important diocese or archdiocese.
    That's true most times. They are in charge of archdioceses and archidioceses are usually the head of an ecclesial province. But, on some cases, there are archbishops that are in charge of a(n average) diocese and they are archbishops ad personam (either because they were previously in charge of an archdiocese or because the Pope give them that dignity). Nuncios are usually titular archbishops of former archdioceses...
    of course any pope was a bishop because no others can be elected.
    In theory, in catholicism, you don't need to be a bishop to be elected pope. However, if you aren't a bishop, you must be ordained bishop as soon as you accept to be pope.
     
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