Pluperfect in Latin, Greek, and Spanish conditionals (-ra in hubiera, pudiera)


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Español, México
Hello. Are there now more explanations for this -ra in Latin and Romance? What are your thoughts on its development? Thank you!

et, si fata deum, si mens non laeua fuisset, impulerat ferro Argolicas foedare latebras
(Virg. Aen. "And had the gods' decrees, had our mind not been perverse, he would have driven us to violate with steel the Argive den"1)

me truncus inlapsus cerebro sustulerat, nisi Faunum ictum dextra levasset
(Hor. Carm.; 'would have carried me off' in p. 85, "a tree-trunk on the head would have ended me, if Faunus had not stopped it")

The previous example in that source also had an imperfecto: Si per L. Metellum licitum esset... matres... veniebant (Cic. Verr. 'the mothers would have come'); Rohlfs recorded both, 'well preserved' and 'widespread' in S. Italy (Gram. stor. iii, § 751 [EN], 749). Also both in Greek (3a, b).

Perierat imperium... si Fabius tantum ausus esset quantum ira suadebat (Sen. Dial. 'the empire had been lost, if Fabius had ventured as far as passion urged'); Perierat totus orbis, nisi iram finiret misericordia (Elder Seneca, Contr. 'the whole world would have been destroyed, if compassion did not put an end to anger'; at fuerat melius (Ov. Her. "Yet had it been better"); cf. "quite often in the indicative, especially in the imperfect and pluperfect" (Pinkster 7.157) & "found all through the classical period."2
[SenRhet] Perieras, pater, nisi in parricidam incidisses; Belle illis cesserat si nasus Atticus ibi substitisset; meo alligatus vix solvi poterat, si testimonium falsum pro fratre dixisset; si bene de te meruerat, patrem pro illo rogasses; hoc excusare non poterat, nisi aliena rapuisset; non enim poteram invenire filios, nisi alterum promisissem; Si volebas rogare, admovisses propinquos, amicos; si mea causa faciebas, me admonuisses, servum prohibuisses, non cecidisses; Iam se parabat in tertiam, nisi nox defecisset; sciebas te perituram si confessa esses tyrannicidium. [Ammianus] Quae si conspirasset, abierat procul dubio victrix; si reliqua temperasset, vixerat ut Traianus et Marcus; si in agris consul Quinctius possedisset, amiserat etiam post dictaturam gloriam paupertatis; quarum si altera defuisset, ad perfectam non venerat summitatem; si nupsissent, per aetatem ter iam nixus poterat suppetere liberorum; quorum si quem morti velocitas subtraxisset, iacti corporis pondere ad ima fluminis subsidebat; si copia patuisset, clam affectabat; si prosperior iuvisset eventus, occulte meditabantur.
  • Gram. stor. iii, § 751

    Also leaving some examples here, for another thread, as it was public domain. With thanks a thousand, to Professor Rohlfs. His short mention of Piedmont and Provence is interesting, next to "starts in the Augustan era" in Pinkster, 7.31.

    [...] Old examples: from Tuscany se fossi vivo, troppo fora (Inf. 32,90), s'eo fosse priete o ver frate minore, al papa fòra la mia prima andata (Angiolieri, son. 109), from the "Mare amoroso" non fuora dunqua gran mala ventura... se mi uccideste (Monks, 326). From other regions, Umbrian se quel guado fusse arkiuso, stàran fissi al magnadone (Jacopone, cf. Monks, 477), Romanesco se vero non fosse, non vennera prospere tutte le cose ad esso (ibid., 369), Abruzzese ben abera potuto, se avesse voluto (ibid, 539), Aquilan se con pace vi mi avesse remissi nelle vostre possitioni, la morte me non dolzera (Haumer, 28), in "Rosa fresca " se tanto addivenissemi, tagliàrami le trezze (v. 48 ). For northern Italy this form is documented only in Piedmont (a continuation of the Provençal territory, which knows this type), for example in the ancient Piedmontese sermons lo nostre seignor, si el volés, el pogra (potuerat) ben eser ná d'una reina, and other examples in Gamillscheg, 242; cf. § 602.
    Contemporary dialects are familiar with this type of hypothetical period throughout the southern part of mainland Italy, from middle Calabria (Catanzaro area) to Abruzzo (except for Apulia and parts of Campania and Lucania), cf. Abruzzese (Castelli) jə vəvè, sə cə fòssə l'aqua 'berrei'; Campanian (Acerno) vivèra, si ngi fossi l'acqua, southern Lucanian (S. Chirico Raparo) vivèra, si ci fussi gacqua, Calabrese (Acri) vivèrra si ci fusse d'acqua (AIS, 1035 ff.), Abruzzese (Palmoli) magnèi, sə ttə tənèssə appətitə, southern Campanian (Omignano) mangiari, si avissi famə, southern Lucanian (S. Chirico Raparo) mangèrasi, s'avissi fami, Calabrian (Acri) mangèrra, si ti facissi fami? (AIS, 1016 ff.). In Sicily similar forms are found in some parts of the island, limited, however, to very few verbs: fora or forra, avérra; cf. § 603.

    Vestiges in Portuguese, along quem dera, tomara (p. 71, Dueñas 2018): Fora por certo invicto cavaleiro / Se não quisera ir ver a terra Ibéria (Camões). Also in that source: o que nõ era antes nẽ fora despoys se daquela froyta nõ ouvera comydo (Gal. Estoria 1300 - 1330). Cf. in Machado de Assis (EN), Se me houvessem dito... a alegria não houvera penetrado o coração; Se a viúva lhe houvera falado com brandura é provável que lhe fizesse plena confissão de seus sentimentos.

    In Mio Cid, si ellos le viessen, non escapara de muert (47.8t). The imperfecto in that § 749 also survived. Se tivesse ânimo, matava-me hoje mesmo (M. de Assis); Se tivesse trabalhado bem, podia estar já de posse (ib.) Ansí, si estuviera en latín u en hebraico u en griego, no era maravilla (Teresa of Avila); Ese Provincial, si no hubiera andado tan disbaratado, no era mal verdugo (ib.) Cf. Judeo-Spanish ˚Si me aviyan yamado, ya iva (p. 495), and Romeyka Greek (p. 57, Neocleous 2017; 'if only I had eaten less, I *was better now').

    Both in S. Italy and the Latin authors, these two seem to have gone together. People may still glance at the development, if they remember ᴄᴀɴᴛᴀʀᴀ was 'había cantado', i.e. Si me hubiera visto, estaba muerto, *'If he had seen me, I was dead!' ↔ *Si me hubiera visto, ya había acabado todo, *'everything had ended.' Other languages losing ˚ᴄᴀɴᴛᴏ́ and ˚ᴄᴀɴᴛᴀʀᴀ.