Plural of what/who

F

francisgranada

Senior Member
Slovakia
Hungarian
Hello!

Inspired by the thread "If someone comes tell them to wait for a while" of Encolpius, I have the following question:
In which languages do the pronouns meaning "what" and "who" have plural forms and how they are used?

In Hungarian mi (what) and ki (who) have the plural forms mik and kik, and the plural of the Spanish quien (who) is quienes. These seem to be the only examples I know about.

Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:
    • Hi, francis
    Could you give some examples (sentences) with mik and kik please?
     
    Hi Kotlas

    Ki ez az ember? (Who is this man?)
    Kik ezek az emberek? (Who are these people?)

    Kit láttál a házban? (Whom did you see in the house? - supposing you saw one person, or you don't know how many persons there were)
    Kiket láttál a házban ? (Whom did you see in the house? - supposing you saw more persons)

    Mi ez? (What is this?)
    Mik ezek? (What are these "things"?)

    Mit csinálsz? (What do you do?)
    Miket csinálsz? (What do you do? - supposing you are doing/producing/etc ... more "things"; "What kind of things are you doing?")

    (the ending -k is the general marker of plural and -t is the marker of accusative)
     
    Last edited:
    Now I see. The only way we can translate the English what and who into Russian as words in the plural form would be in sentences like this:

    what people are you talking about? - the people who helped me.
    о каких людях ты говоришь? - о людях, которые мне помогли.
    [o ka'kikh 'lyudyakh ty gava'rish'] - [a 'lyudyakh ka'toryye mne pama'gli]

    But these what and who would be adjectives modifying plural nouns, they would not be pronouns.
     
    Kotlas said:
    о каких людях ты говоришь? - о людях, которые мне помогли.
    [o ka'kikh 'lyudyakh ty gava'rish'] - [a 'lyudyakh ka'toryye mne pama'gli]
    Click to expand...
    The same in other Slavic languages (e.g. in Slovak: "O akých ľuďoch ty hovoríš?" - "O ľuďoch, ktorí mi pomohli.")
    But these what and who would be adjectives modifying plural nouns, they would not be pronouns.
    Click to expand...
    Yes.
     
    Curiously, in Latvian and Lithuanian, not only do they not distinguish between singular and plural forms of these question words, but even Who? and What? are the same: Kas? (in both languages)
     
    Last edited:
    Perhaps, this demonstrates an older IE stage, when who and what were not yet clearly distinguished. Finally, the declension of the Latin quis and quod also seem to coincide ...

    This suggests another "subquestion": did the classical Latin consequently distinguish between who and what and between the posssible singular/plural of these pronouns?
     
    Last edited:
    Modern Greek has singular & plural forms for who, but only singular for what:

    Who:
    Interrogative pronoun, sing. = «Ποιός, -ά, -ό» [p͜ços] (masc.), [p͜ça] (fem.), [p͜ço] (neut.)
    Plural = «Ποιοί, -ές, -ά» [p͜çi] (masc.), [p͜çes] (fem.), [p͜ça] (neut.)
    It's the Classical interrogative adjective that introduces direct question, with synizesis = «ποῖος» po̯îŏs (masc.), «ποίᾱ» po̯íā (fem.), «ποῖον» po̯îŏn (neut.).
    Plural = «Ποῖοι» po̯îo̯i (masc.), «ποῖες» po̯îes (fem.), «ποῖα» po̯îă (neut.) --> of what kind?, what?, which? (PIE *kʷos- who? cf Skt. कः ‎(kaḥ‎), who? + adjectival suffix -*yós cf Lat. -ius/-eus).

    What:
    Only «τι» [ti] which is the neuter form of the ancient interrogative/relative pronoun «τίς, τίς, τί» tís (masc. & fem.), tí (neut.) [See below]

    Ancient Greek had singular and plural forms, and only one pronoun for both:

    What, who:
    Interrogative/relative pronoun, sing. = «τίς, τίς, τί» tís (masc. & fem.), tí (neut.).
    Plural = «τίνες, τίνες, τίνα» tínĕs (masc. & fem.), tínă (neut.) --> what?, anything, something (PIE *kʷi-/*kʷid, who?, what?, which?, that cf Lat. quid).
     
    apmoy70 said:
    .... Ancient Greek had singular and plural forms, and only one pronoun for both ...
    Click to expand...
    This is interesting (not only because of the existence of plural forms). I.e. the Latin forms quis, qui, (quod ...) etymologically correspond to τίς,, τί (finally also to the English what, Lithuanian/Latvian kas, etc.), but what is the origin of the consonant -ν- (-n-) in the forms for plural τίνες, τίνα ?
     
    In English you can express these ideas but not with one word...
    Is this what you are looking for?

    Who is going to the cinema tonight? -- ¿Quién va al cine esta noche?
    Who of you all are going to the cinema tonight? --- ¿Quiénes van al cine esta noche?

    Which one do you like better, this one or that one? --- ¿Cuál te gusta más, éste o aquél?
    Which one of these do you like better, these here or those there? --- ¿Cuáles te gustan más, éstos o aquéllos?
     
    merquiades said:
    Who of you all are going to the cinema tonight? --- ¿Quiénes van al cine esta noche?
    Click to expand...
    Yes, this aspect exists also in Hungarian, even if not explicitly or "necessarily". However, the usage of the plural kik (=quienes) often (perhaps typically) supposes that we are speaking about "known" persons (e.g. in the sense of Who of you, Who of them, etc ...).
     
    Thanks. Intuitively, I have supposed that this -ν (-n) is originally an accusative ending (thus corresponding to the Latin -m, e.g. in quem which finally became an oblique case, resulting in the Portughese quem or Spanish quien, in the meaning of "who"). The ending -m, or its variants, are present in accusative also in the Slavic languages. However, I didn't know that practically the same process as in Spanish (quien > quienes) could have happened also in ancient Greek (*τίν > τίνες) which still maintained (some of) the IE grammatical cases.
     
    Last edited:
    Catalan has a plural form for quin (quins), used when asking for one or more items, which often translates as English "what" or "which". Què "what" and qui "who" don't have plural forms.
     
    Finnish:

    English nominative singular – nominative plural (more cases in Wiktionary)

    who?     kuka – ketkä
    what? mikä – mitkä
    which? (of two)/which set? (of two sets) kumpi – kummat
    anyone (interrogative/negative) kukaan – ketkään
    anything (interrogative/negative) mikään – mitkään
    any (of two)/any set (of two sets) (interrogative/negative) kumpikaan – kummatkaan
    someone joku – jotkut
    something jokin – jotkin
    one (of two)/one set (of two sets) jompikumpi – jommatkummat
    who/which (relative) joka – jotka
     
    Last edited:
    Turkish can pluralize them:

    Kim? (who?) - Kimler? (Lit. Whos?)
    Ne? (what?) - Neler? (Lit. Whats?)

    Also:
    Nere? (where?) - Nereler? (Lit. Wheres?)

    (These are all fully declinable: neleri, kimlerden, nerelerden, nelerinki, kimlerle, etc.)
     
    francisgranada said:
    the Latin forms quis, qui, (quod ...) etymologically correspond to τίς,, τί
    Click to expand...
    Classical Latin differentiated between interrogative pronouns (quis/quid) and relative pronouns (qui/quod). Only relative pronouns had plurals. Ancient Greek tis/ti etymologically correspond to Lat. quis/quid. It is interesting to note that 'ti' could originally also have a relative value in the (still today existing) expression ''o,ti'' meaning 'whatever/anything' (originally 'that which').
     
    francisgranada said:
    Perhaps, this demonstrates an older IE stage, when who and what were not yet clearly distinguished.
    Click to expand...

    Latvian and Lithuanian have lost the neuter gender in their nouns (though this is not true of all the Baltic languages), so I would guess that the lack of a neuter interrogative pronoun is part of the same pattern, though I'm not sure.


    Icelandic has masculine, feminine and neuter gender, so there are multiple choices of both the singular and plural pronouns, depending on the semantic or grammatical gender of the referent:

    hver "who (singular, masc. and fem.), which one" (neuter hvert), hverjir "who (masculine pl.), which ones" (feminine hverjar, neuter hver)

    hvað "what" -- I'm not sure if this technically has a separate plural form, but if it does, it would be the same as those of hver above

    hvor "who, which one (of two)" (neuter hvort), hvorir "who, which ones (of two groups)" (fem. hvorar, neut. hvor)

    These pronouns are also used to mean "each, every, any" in certain contexts:

    Hver sem sigrar, ætti að vera spennandi keppni. "Whoever wins, it ought to be an exciting match."
    Þeir skilja ekki hver annan. "They do not understand one another/each other." (or hvor annan if we are talking about only two people)

    There are also many words that incorporate these pronouns (e.g. einhver "someone"), but the OP seemed to be asking about the uncompounded words.
     
    Last edited:
    Christian Morgenstern
    Der Werwolf
    Ein Werwolf eines Nachts entwich
    von Weib und Kind, und sich begab
    an eines Dorfschullehrers Grab
    und bat ihn: Bitte, beuge mich!

    Der Dorfschulmeister stieg hinauf
    auf seines Blechschilds Messingknauf
    und sprach zum Wolf, der seine Pfoten
    geduldig kreuzte vor dem Toten:

    »Der Werwolf«, – sprach der gute Mann,
    »des Weswolfs« – Genitiv sodann,
    »dem Wemwolf« – Dativ, wie man's nennt,
    »den Wenwolf« – damit hat's ein End'.

    Dem Werwolf schmeichelten die Fälle,
    er rollte seine Augenbälle.
    Indessen, bat er, füge doch
    zur Einzahl auch die Mehrzahl noch!

    Der Dorfschulmeister aber mußte
    gestehn, daß er von ihr nichts wußte.
    Zwar Wölfe gäb's in großer Schar,
    doch „Wer“ gäb's nur im Singular.

    Der Wolf erhob sich tränenblind –
    er hatte ja doch Weib und Kind!
    Doch da er kein Gelehrter eben,
    so schied er dankend und ergeben.
     
    Macedonian

    "What" has only one form for singular and plural for all 3 genders: што (što).

    "Who" has forms for gender and number: singular кој/која/кое (koj/koja/koe, m.f.n.); plural кои (koi) for all 3 genders.

    Што сум јас? (Što sum jas?) = What am I?
    Што е тој? (Što e toj?) = What is he?
    Што е таа? (Što e taa?) = What is she?
    Што е тоа? (Što e toa?) = What is it?
    Што се тие? (Što se tie?) = What are they?

    Кој сум јас? (Koj sum jas?) = Who am I? - for male
    Којa сум јас? (Koja sum jas?) = Who am I? - for female
    Кој е тој? (Koj e toj?) = Who is he?
    Која е таа? (Koja e taa?) = Who is she?
    Кое е тоа? (Koe e toa?) = Who is it?
    Кои се тие? (Koi se tie?) = Who are they? - for all 3 genders: masculine, feminine, neuter
     
    Last edited:
    Thank you. Fascinating thread. 👍
    How about Hebrew, Arabic, Basque, Indian languages? Any idea? I'm not sure.
    And Portuguese? I cannot remember.
     
    Encolpius said:
    And Portuguese? I cannot remember.
    Click to expand...
    'It does not allow the plural' (Plaza). Daqueles de quem sois senhor superno (Camões, 'Of those of whom you are supreme lord'1.10)

    Spanish also had a plural quién (19.4q), which later followed quienes. Loar devemos con alegria / quienes su bien atendemos de Santa Maria (a. 1284). For Spanish 'going with Greek,' it seems both can share position (31, '¿las carpinterías quiénes las hicieron?').

    This often means Pt. Quem veio? ~ Sp. ¿Quiénes vinieron? in the same scenarios you expect a plural answer for Who came?
     
    bearded said:
    Classical Latin differentiated between interrogative pronouns (quis/quid) and relative pronouns (qui/quod). Only relative pronouns had plurals. Ancient Greek tis/ti etymologically correspond to Lat. quis/quid. It is interesting to note that 'ti' could originally also have a relative value in the (still today existing) expression ''o,ti'' meaning 'whatever/anything' (originally 'that which').
    Click to expand...
    The spelling of the anaphoric «ὅτι» /ˈhoti/ as «ὅ τι» /ˈho ti/* is ancient as a means to differentiate it from the homograph (and cognate) conjunction «ὅτι» /ˈhoti/**.
    The spelling in MoGr «ό,τι» [ˈo̞t̠i] (anaphoric), «ότι» [ˈo̞t̠i] (conj.) is Katharevousian. Byzantine scholars just put a space between «ὅ» & «τι» = anaphoric «ὅ τι».

    *The neuter form of the indefinite anaphoric pronoun «ὅστις» /ˈhostis/.
    **Subordinating conjunction «ὅτι» /ˈhoti/ --> that, because, seeing that, originally the neuter form of the indefinite pronoun «ὅστις» /ˈhostis/ (see above for its etymology).
     
    Polish


    who = kto

    what = co


    (interrogative) kto

    who is it?= kto to?
    who are they?= kim są ci ludzie?
    who knows the answer?= kto potrafi odpowiedzieć?, kto zna odpowiedź?
    who did you invite?= kogo zaprosiłeś?
    who are you writing to?= do kogo piszesz?
    who was she with?= z kim ona była?
    who did you buy it for?= dla kogo to kupiłeś?
    who did you get it from?= od kogo to dostałeś?


    2.
    (relative, after noun) który ,które ,którzy
    (after pronoun) kto

    którego
    of which
    whose
    which one's


    the boy who won the prize = chłopak, który zdobył nagrodę
    this is Adam, who I told you about = to Adam, o którym ci mówiłem
    there are blankets for those who want them = są koce dla tych, którzy ich potrzebują

    what

    co     to (jest)? = what’s this/that?
    co jest na górze? = what’s upstairs?
    co robisz?= what are you doing?
    o co chodzi? = what’s the problem albo matter?, what’s going on?
    w co się ubierzesz? = what are you going to wear?
    czego szukasz?= what are you looking for?
    czego on chciał?= what did he want?
    czego albo co (potoczny) chcesz w zamian? = what do you want in exchange?
    do czego służy ten guzik?= what is this button for?
    z czego jest ta koszula?= what is this shirt made of?
    czemu się tak przyglądasz? what are you looking at?
    o czym oni mówią? what are they talking about?

    what

    jakiego     koloru są ściany?= what colour are the walls?
    jaki to ma kształt? = what shape is it?
    jaka jest pogoda? = what’s the weather like?
    jaki to samochód? = what kind of car is that?
    jaka ona jest/jacy oni są? = what is she like/are they like?
    na jaki temat jest ta książka?= what is this book about?
    w jaki sposób? = in what way?, how?
    po jakiemu oni mówią? = what language are they speaking?
     
    Last edited:
    I know that in Tibetan there are plural for "who"

    སུ (su) - who (singular)
    སུ་སུ (su su) - who (plural)

    example:
    ཁོ་སུ་རེད (ko su re) - Who is he?
    མི་སུ་སུ་ཡོད (mi su su yod) - Who(plural) are there?
    མི་སུ་སུ་སླེབས་འདུག (mi su su slebs 'dug) - Who(plural) has arrived?

    And I'm not sure if there is plural what in Tibetan, I haven't met yet.
     
    Swedish:
    Vem är det? - who (one) is that?
    Vilka är det? - who (two or more) are those?
    Vad är det? - what (one or more) is/are that?
     
    You must log in or register to reply here.
    Back
    Top