posh = salubrious ?

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dreamlike

Senior Member
Polish
Hi,

do you have any idea what this sentence means?
Filip you live in a posh area of town

Filip, you live in a salubrious area of town?
 
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  • PaulQ

    Banned
    UK
    English - England
    Yes, I know exactly what it means, but what is the context and source? And is Filip a person?
     

    George French

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    Hi,

    do you have any idea what this sentence means?

    Filip you live in posh area of town
    Filip, you live in a saliubrious area of town?
    The meanings of posh and salubrious are fairly close to one another. The WR dictionary has definitions of them both....

    GF..
     

    PaulQ

    Banned
    UK
    English - England
    Yes, posh indicates upper class, well-to-do, good quality, expensive or appearing to be expensive, etc.
     

    Sepia

    Senior Member
    High German/Danish
    Maybe we should add what posh originally meant: The above mentioned upper class, well-to-do not yet jet setters - because jetplanes weren't yet invented - used to travel by ship. Like to the Asian colonies. Air conditioning wasn't invented yet, either. So those who could afford it booked a cabin that mainly stayed on the shadowy side of the ship. At least through the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean that would be portside, going out, and starboard, going home. Portside Out Starboard Home.

    That at least is how it is explained by lots of people.
     

    PaulQ

    Banned
    UK
    English - England
    Portside Out Starboard Home: as fine as this story is, as plausible as it appears and as much as I'd like it to be true, it is a myth.
    OED Etymology:Origin unknown.
    A popular explanation (still frequently repeated) is that the word is < the initial letters of the phrase port outward, starboard home, with reference to the more comfortable (because cooler) and more expensive side for accommodation on ships formerly travelling between Britain and India. It is often suggested that the Peninsular & Oriental Steam Navigation Company stamped tickets for such cabins on this route with the letters P.O.S.H., whence the word. However, no evidence has been found for the existence of such tickets. See further G. Chowdharay-Best in Mariner's Mirror(1971 ) Jan. 91–2.

    OED gives 2 alternatives to this, one from Urdu
    An alternative suggestion derives the word < Urdu safed-pōś dressed in white, well-dressed, also used as a colloquial and derogatory term for ‘affluent’ < safed white ( < Persian safed (Old Persian saped )) + pōś covering, also ‘clothed in, wearing’ ( < Persian pōś : see papoosh n.). However, this poses phonological problems and there is no direct evidence for the transition into English.
    and one transferred from a slang word for a dandy
    slang. Now rare. A dandy.

    1890 A. Barrère & C. G. Leland Dict. Slang II. 146/2 Posh,‥a dandy.
    ...

    1912 Tailor 21 xi. 4/2 If he described another [tailor] as a great ‘posh,’ which means well-dressed, the whistle would place him in a‥ridiculous light.
     

    Fabulist

    Banned
    American English
    The meanings of posh and salubrious are fairly close to one another.
    Well, not in AE. We don't have "posh" and would have to defer to BE for the definition, but for "salubrious" we have (American Heritage Dictionary) "conducive or favorable to health or well-being." Nothing to do with "upper class, well-to-do, good quality, expensive or appearing to be expensive."

    While the rich people in a town, who could afford to live in any neighborhood, would presumably choose a salubrious one—if there were one—the salubrious area might also be large enough to accommodate middle-class residents and perhaps even poor ones—the whole town, rich and poor quarters alike, might be salubrious.
     

    se16teddy

    Senior Member
    English - England
    The OED has this "draft addition of 2011" for salubrious:
    Of a building, an area, etc.: pleasant, attractive, comfortable; well-maintained, prosperous. Also in extended use, of a person, etc. Freq. preceded by less, more.

    The first example is from 1846 though!
    1846 Ecclesiastic 1 362 The rich employers leave the scenes of their wealth for more salubrious residences.

    Posh and salubrious are very subjective: I suppose that if you're living on the street any house with a clean carpet is posh and salubrious.
     

    PaulQ

    Banned
    UK
    English - England
    The OED has this "draft addition of 2011" for salubrious:
    Of a building, an area, etc.: pleasant, attractive, comfortable; well-maintained, prosperous. Also in extended use, of a person, etc. Freq. preceded by less, more.
    Posh and salubrious are very subjective: I suppose that if you're living on the street any house with a clean carpet is posh and salubrious.
    I'm a little dubious about this "draft addition" for salubrious, I can't quite see how, with certainty, salubrious does not still mean, (American Heritage Dictionary) "conducive or favorable to health or well-being." if it is accepted that potential violence or unsavoury habits are included in health and well-being.

    Less (or, contrastingly, more) salubrious is being used as a euphemism; see this more recent use from the same entry in the OED.
    2006 Chap Autumn 17/2 This amiable rogue purports to be a private eye, and can often be found in the more salubrious of Harlem's burlesque saloons.
     

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    Portside Out Starboard Home: as fine as this story is, as plausible as it appears and as much as I'd like it to be true, it is a myth.
    OED Etymology:Origin unknown.
    OED gives 2 alternatives to this, one from Urdu
    and one transferred from a slang word for a dandy
    :thumbsup:
    I believe that this is one of the small group of English words derived from Romany. It meant half, and in particular a halfpenny, and so eventually came to mean money in general. This is attested from 1830 and by the 1890s had come to mean dandy. In its modern sense (elegant, luxurious, upper-class) it first appeared in Punch in 1918.

    Source: Michael Quinion, Port Out Starboard Home and other language myths, Penguin, 2004.
     

    Hildy1

    Senior Member
    English - US and Canada
    I agree with those above who say that "posh" and "salubrious" do not mean the same thing. A posh area of town would almost certainly be salubrious, but not all salubrious areas are posh. Any pleasant, well-maintained, safe area is salubrious, even if the houses are small and simple.

    It may be that "salubrious" is a code-word used by journalists to mean "expensive". Another such word is "leafy", as in "a leafy area" or "a leafy neighbourhood". In fact, more ordinary neighbourhoods may have more leaves per square metre than the more expensive ones, because often in posh areas the houses are huge and fill almost the whole lot.
     
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    djmc

    Senior Member
    English - United Kingdom
    Posh areas are not always salubrious. There are several areas in London which used, perhaps still do have a dreadful reputation but which have for the most part always been expensive. Mayfair, Chelsea for example used to have a reputation for prostitutes (perhaps high class but nevertheless). Notting Hill had a reputation for being an area for landlords charging high rents and beating up their tenants (think of Rachman in th Seventies), it is now incredibly expensive. A lot of the fashionable areas were and sometimes still are slightly edgy whereas salubrious areas are much more boring.
     

    paulisaac

    New Member
    English - Canada
    I haven't a clue what point you are trying to make. Nobody here or anywhere else has claimed that "posh" means "clean" or "healthful", contrary to the strawman statement in your first post. A posh neighbourhood is posh. So what? It's a perfectly normal use of this word. There's nothing at all "maddening" about it.
    oops.....wrote that too quickly. Meant to say:

    it's common practice (however maddening) for people there to speak of a 'salubrious neighbourhood'. They do not mean that it is clean or healthful, but that it is: yes— posh!
     

    Packard

    Senior Member
    USA, English
    If 'salubrious' is regularly used [...].
    In my experience "salubrious" is never used in conversation and rarely used in writing. I've never seen a newspaper or magazine article using the word. I do see it occasionally in novels (and probably non-fiction but I read little non-fiction).

    I think that the average citizen of the USA could easily go through their entire life without ever needing to know what salubrious means.
     

    djmc

    Senior Member
    English - United Kingdom
    In England salubrious and also insalubrious are both fairly common. I wouldn't myself say that posh means salubrious, to me it means expensive or trying to be upper class. Using areas in London, Hampstead might be salubrious, Mayfair posh, Soho insalubrious. It is all a question of appearances. All of London is expensive, these three are expensive by London standards.
     

    jmichaelm

    Senior Member
    English - US
    I think that the average citizen of the USA could easily go through their entire life without ever needing to know what salubrious means.
    Before reading this chain I confess I did not know the meaning of salubrious. I did know the meaning of posh, even though it's never used by Americans in conversation. That may help give an idea of how seldom the word salubrious is used.
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    In England salubrious and also insalubrious are both fairly common. I wouldn't myself say that posh means salubrious, to me it means expensive or trying to be upper class. Using areas in London,
    Hampstead might be salubrious, Mayfair posh, Soho insalubrious. It is all a question of appearances. All of London is expensive, these three are expensive by London standards.
    So
    Hampstead is "favorable to or bringing good health; healthful,"
    Mayfair isn't "favorable to or bringing good health; healthful"
    Soho is the opposite of "favorable to or bringing good health; healthful"
    I'm still in the dark. ;)
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    For me, a "salubrious" district for living in would be just about the opposite of an area that was "louche".

    "Brighton looks like a town that is helping the police with their enquiries" - Brighton is louche whereas Hove, with its more genteel reputation, always used to be more salubrious.

    (I couldn't say whether that perception is still valid, now that the sister towns have been united in citihood.)
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    For me, a "salubrious" district for living in would be just about the opposite of an area that was "louche".
    No light there.
    My knowledge of "louche" is limited to an episode of Posh Nosh. Simon Marchmont says that supper is relaxed, languid, and louche compared to dinner, then his wife tells us to embarrass a chicken leg.
     

    Copperknickers

    Senior Member
    Scotland - Scots and English
    So
    Hampstead is "favorable to or bringing good health; healthful,"
    Mayfair isn't "favorable to or bringing good health; healthful"
    Soho is the opposite of "favorable to or bringing good health; healthful"
    I'm still in the dark. ;)
    Hampstead is a leafy suburb in North London inhabited largely by upper middle class English people. Mayfair is a not-hugely-leafy area of Central London, full of Victorian townhouses inhabited by Russian billionaires. Soho is the city's traditional red-light district and was formerly a rather seedy area, although it is now somewhat gentrified (although it is still an area where prostitution is de facto decriminalised and party drugs are not hard to come by).

    Mayfair and Soho are both 'posh' areas in the sense that living there is ridiculously expensive. They are not hugely salubrious areas however: you wouldn't want to bring up a family in either of them.
     
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