pronunciation - Carradine = ravine or nine?

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by kuleshov, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. kuleshov Senior Member

    Spain Spanish
    I don't know how to pronounce this famous surname. Could you -cinema buffs- help me?
    Is it /'karadain/ or /karadi:n/?
  2. flightgoddess Senior Member

    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    US, English, Spanish
    He rhymes with ravine
  3. Roi Marphille

    Roi Marphille Senior Member

    Catalonia, Catalan.
    :confused: so, is it like "gabardine" ? right? If so, I heard it mispronounced all my life.
  4. gian_eagle

    gian_eagle Senior Member

    Peru - Castellano
    ravine does not ryhme with eel??? i think it is not rav/a:n/ but rav/e:n/ or sth. like that.
  5. hsam

    hsam Senior Member

    Nr. London
    British English
    huh?! ravine se pronuncia ra--veeen
  6. gian_eagle

    gian_eagle Senior Member

    Peru - Castellano
    i didn't know how to explain, it's ra-veen, not ra-vai-ne...

    si, eso quería decir.
  7. Roi Marphille

    Roi Marphille Senior Member

    Catalonia, Catalan.
    ok, so everybody agrees that Carradine rhymes with ravine?

    I'd say it rhymes with nine or mine because I have always heard it this way but I am not an English speaker native.

    Anyway, his brother David is cooler. ;)
  8. BasedowLives

    BasedowLives Senior Member

    in this situation if i had to say his name i'd just say it both ways and admit that i didn't know how to pronounce it.

    because i don't :eek:

    ex, "yeah, blah blah blah john carradine, or carradine, or however you say it blah blah blah."
  9. gian_eagle

    gian_eagle Senior Member

    Peru - Castellano
    Yeah Roi, I agree with you. That's the way the ryhme should be.
  10. fenixpollo

    fenixpollo moderator

    American English
    In my neck of the woods, Carradine rhymes with ravine, gabardine, clean, scene and teen.

  11. jacinta Senior Member

    USA English
    I say Carradeen- John Carradine is the father of David and Keith Carradine. He is now deceased.
  12. Roi Marphille

    Roi Marphille Senior Member

    Catalonia, Catalan.
    ups, I didn't know
  13. Christian Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    USA English
    You would have to ask a Carradine to know how they pronounce it. And all Carradine families may not pronounce it the same way.

    The composer Leonard Bernstein used to corect people who pronounced his name Bernsteen. He was Bernstine, he said. However, millions of Americans automatically referred to him as Bernsteen, and still do.

    It amuses me to believe that they were right and he was wrong.
  14. jmx

    jmx Senior Member

    Spain / Spanish
    Is there any place where you can check the English pronunciation of proper nouns (personal names, surnames, place names, ...) ?
  15. fenixpollo

    fenixpollo moderator

    American English
    Unfortunately, since Christian is 100% correct, everyone pronounces proper names differently. In the U.S., this is true not only for non-Anglo-Saxon proper names, but for all names.
  16. alesbica Member

    Austin, TX
    Actually, "Carradine" looks like an Italian last name. Therefore, each syllable should be pronounced with short, pure vowel sounds like that of Spanish and most other Romance languages (therefore, it should be comprised of 4 syllables, not 3). So, it should be [ka-Ra-'di-ne] according to the IPA system or "ka-rra-DEE-neh" for anyone not familiar with IPA. The double "r" should be a trilled or a rolled sound with pure (i.e., not reduced) vowel sounds.

    I hope this helps even if it is more than a year late hehe.
  17. mazbook

    mazbook Senior Member

    Mazatlán, Sinaloa, México
    United States/México, English
    Hola alesbica, A year late is better than never. :)

    Even though it is a year late, an explanation of the pronunciation confusion is needed. The general rule in English pronunciation (and English rules are often broken or disregarded) is that when a word has a terminating vowel-consonant-e combination, the vowel is pronounced to agree with the pronunciation used when saying the alphabet and the e is silent/not pronounced. So, Carradine and ravine would apparantly be pronounced to rhyme with mine, vine, nine, etc. This is why so many people—even native English speakers—mispronounce the name and many other words with this terminating combination.

    Hope this helps others understand.

    Saludos desde Mazatlán
  18. alesbica Member

    Austin, TX
    My phonological explanation was based on if you pronounce the last name in an Italian fashion as opposed to the English way. Thank you for the reply anyway! I see you are also a lover of languages :).
  19. Twenty-Seventh Letter Member

    United States (English)
    Yes, but John Carradine was American, not Italian. Although his surname may have been Italian, the name was Anglicanized so that native English speakers could easily pronounce the name. Perhaps some of his distant relatives somewhere in Europe pronounce their name Ca-ra-DI-ne, but let's not lead Spanish-speakers to believe that that is the proper way to pronounce the American surname.
  20. fenixpollo

    fenixpollo moderator

    American English
    I think the word you're looking for is anglicized. I doubt that, being an American family, the Carradines are an Anglican family, although they may well be Episcopalian... but this thread is not about their religion, but their pronunciation. ;) And I agree that their pronunciation of their own name is most likely an American English one, not an Italian one.
  21. Twenty-Seventh Letter Member

    United States (English)
    touché ;)
  22. normalbean New Member

    It is pronounced to rhyme with ravine, or dean, teen, etc.

    The authority for this is the Feb. 20, 1942 episode of the radio series, Information Please, on which John Carradine is featured, and to which I am currently listening. It is a fun episode, also featuring Boris Karloff. Throughout the moderator Mr. Clifton Fadiman calls him Mr. Carradine, rhyming with dean.
  23. Hunnenkoenig New Member

    Hungarian, German
    Look on Youtube for interviews with him. Everybody calls him Carradeen not Carradain.

    "Bernstein" is a german word for "amber".

    It is pronounced "bern-sht-ain" (the "e" in "bern" like "ea" in "dead", "s" like "sh" in "shopping" and "ei" like "I" as "me, myself")

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