pronunciation difference ''dog'' vs. ''hot''

AliBadass

Senior Member
persian
I don't know the difference between these two phonetic symbols: /ɑː/ as in hot and /ɒː/ as in dog. Can I take them the same?
 
  • entangledbank

    Senior Member
    English - South-East England
    Does any accent use both of those? In BrE both words have a short /ɒ/, with the lips rounded. In AmE, 'hot' has long /ɑ:/, with unrounded lips, and depending on the accent, 'dog' has either that same sound or /ɔ:/, also rounded, but higher in the mouth than the BrE vowel. So whichever accent you're speaking with, you can use the same vowel in both words.

    The phonetic symbols [ɒ] and [ɑ] have the tongue in the same place. They differ in the lip rounding.
     

    AliBadass

    Senior Member
    persian
    Does any accent use both of those? In BrE both words have a short /ɒ/, with the lips rounded. In AmE, 'hot' has long /ɑ:/, with unrounded lips, and depending on the accent, 'dog' has either that same sound or /ɔ:/, also rounded, but higher in the mouth than the BrE vowel. So whichever accent you're speaking with, you can use the same vowel in both words.

    The phonetic symbols [ɒ] and [ɑ] have the tongue in the same place. They differ in the lip rounding.
    Thanks. Still confused, though. They seem so close and almost non-recognizable to me.
     

    entangledbank

    Senior Member
    English - South-East England
    Very few languages have both. I have seen your Persian â vowel described as like both, so I'm not sure whether it is rounded or not. In fact, no accent of English distinguishes them just as vowels: in the BrE accent that has both sounds, the unrounded one is longer than the rounded one.
     

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    Ali, remember that NONE of these vowel-sounds is fixed in a single place, because the human mouth is a soft organ. It's possible to sound out the vowels I-E-A-O-U slowly in a single breath, and impossible to eay exactly where on that range a specific letter is sounded. All we can say is that A and O are close together, and /ɑː/ and /ɒː/ are closer still. Don't bother to even try differenciating them, so long as you can pronounce one of them correctly for the particular brand of English you're learning.

    Another way to approach this is to think of limiting pairs. These are words that are only distinguished by a single sound, like hot and hat, or dog and dug. I don't think there exists in English a limiting pair that depends on /ɑː/ and /ɒː/.
     

    tunaafi

    Senior Member
    English - British (Southern England)
    That dictionary gives the same symbol, /ɒ/ ,for the BrE vowel in both words, and the same symbol, /ɑː/, for the AmE version in both words.

    This is a difference between BrE and AmE pronunciation, not between the pronunciations of 'hot' and 'dog'. If you click on the speaker symbols on the dictionary pages, you can hear these pronunciations.
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    Of course, those pronunciations are only true for some people. As entangledbank says in #2, dog has another vowel sound that many people in the U.S. use that is not the one in hot.
     

    pob14

    Senior Member
    American English
    It rhymes with “pot log” for me - two different vowels, neither of which match Julian’s examples. :D The US is a big place with lots of accents.
     

    RM1(SS)

    Senior Member
    English - US (Midwest)
    For me both log and dog have a vowel that I would spell aw, because it's how I pronounce the word awe. So do frog, bog, hog, grog, &c.
     

    much_rice

    Senior Member
    English - American
    For me both log and dog have a vowel that I would spell aw, because it's how I pronounce the word awe. So do frog, bog, hog, grog, &c.
    I grew up in the northeast and I'm the same :thumbsup:

    The test for this accent that I've heard before is: "Does on, as in 'flick on a light switch,' rhyme with Dawn or Don?" For me it rhymes with the female name, for many other Americans it rhymes with the male name. "Don" I pronounce with about the same vowel as hot.
     
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