Pronunciation: IEC, AVL

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LoveVanPersie

Senior Member
Mandarin, Hakka
How do you pronounce the abbreviations IEC (Institut d'Estudis Catalans) and AVL (Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua)?
Is IEC pronounced /i.ˈjɛk/, /i.ˈɛk/ or /ˈjɛk/?
Is AVL pronounced /a.ve.ˈel(e)/ in Valencian? (Does it have a central Catalan pronunciaion?)
 
  • tenienteramires

    Senior Member
    Catalan - Occidental
    In Western (occidental) Catalan they are pronounced this way:

    AVL:
    - [a.veˈe.ɫe] (most common pronunciation)
    - [a.veˈe.ɫa]
    - [a.veˈeɫ] (a less common pronunciation, but the one I personally use)

    IEC:
    - [iˈek]

    "AVL" can obviously be pronounced in Eastern Catalan, its name is just the name of its letters: a ve ela/ele/el (note that in Eastern Catalan, unstressed e and a are pronounced as a schwa, so ele and ela sound the same).
     

    Doraemon-

    Senior Member
    "Spanish - Spain" "Catalan - Valencia"
    Thank you again :)
    Are alta and baixa of be alta and be baixa often left out in abbreviations?
    Yes, quite often; not if we're spelling, obviously. Moreover, notice that these "alta/baixa" are never used in the areas where we make the distinction b/v, as in Valencian, so I think you'll never hear "a be baixa ela", being a Valencian academy.
     

    Doraemon-

    Senior Member
    "Spanish - Spain" "Catalan - Valencia"
    I mean when it's not an acronym but we're spelling a word, like in: "my surname is bellver, b, e, l, l, v, e, r".
     

    tenienteramires

    Senior Member
    Catalan - Occidental
    The letters B and V are called in catalan "be" and "ve", but since in some places they sound the same, they can also be called "be alta" and "ve baixa". In abbreviations you'll always use "be" and "ve": AVL (a ve ele/ela/el), TV3 (te ve tres). When you say all the letters in a normal word, like when asking how to spell something, you can, optionally, use "be alta" and "ve baixa": "Em diuen Ivan: i, ve baixa, a, en" ("My name is Ivan: i, vee, a, en")

    My recommendation is to pronounce B and V with different sounds (so you'll only need to say "be" and "ve", and not "be alta" or "ve baixa"), even when speaking a dialect that has lost that distiction, because it's the most traditional pronunciation and it's done, nowadays, in Valencian (though in some places only in formal speech) and Balearic dialects, also in Alguer and in Southern Central Catalan (in Tarragona). There are obviously some dialects that have lost this distinction, but it's a modern thing (in Tortosí we lost it during the 19th and 20th century, but in some small villages even today they pronounce V and B differently).
     

    LoveVanPersie

    Senior Member
    Mandarin, Hakka
    The letters B and V are called in catalan "be" and "ve", but since in some places they sound the same, they can also be called "be alta" and "ve baixa". In abbreviations you'll always use "be" and "ve": AVL (a ve ele/ela/el), TV3 (te ve tres). When you say all the letters in a normal word, like when asking how to spell something, you can, optionally, use "be alta" and "ve baixa": "Em diuen Ivan: i, ve baixa, a, en" ("My name is Ivan: i, vee, a, en")

    My recommendation is to pronounce B and V with different sounds (so you'll only need to say "be" and "ve", and not "be alta" or "ve baixa"), even when speaking a dialect that has lost that distiction, because it's the most traditional pronunciation and it's done, nowadays, in Valencian (though in some places only in formal speech) and Balearic dialects, also in Alguer and in Southern Central Catalan (in Tarragona). There are obviously some dialects that have lost this distinction, but it's a modern thing (in Tortosí we lost it during the 19th and 20th century, but in some small villages even today they pronounce V and B differently).
    Would you lenite /d/ to [ð̞]?
     

    tenienteramires

    Senior Member
    Catalan - Occidental
    /b/, [d] and [g] are always lenited to [β], [ð] and [ɣ] except when they are preceded by a nasal sound (un disc [ˈunˈdisk]) , when they are at the end of a syllable (admetre [adˈme.tɾe]) , when they come before a pause and, in the case of [d], in the combination [ɫd]. Also, final /b/, [d] and [g] are pronounced [p], [t] and [k] except in the word "amb", which is pronounced [amb] if followed by a vowel: amb ella [amˈbe.ʎa]
     

    tenienteramires

    Senior Member
    Catalan - Occidental
    Ah it was my typo sorry!
    I mean would you lenite /b/ to [β̞]? Wikipedia says "/b/ remains unlenited in non-betacist dialects."
    In non-betacist dialects, /b/ can be always unlenited, and it's the most traditional way of pronouning it in those dialects, but it's also very common (and I would say it's way more common nowadays) to lenite it to [β] just like in betacist dialects. I'm a betacist, but I allways try to do my best to pronounce V as [v], at least in formal speach or when reading poetry.
     

    Dymn

    Senior Member
    in Southern Central Catalan (in Tarragona). There are obviously some dialects that have lost this distinction, but it's a modern thing (in Tortosí we lost it during the 19th and 20th century, but in some small villages even today they pronounce V and B differently).
    I read it would have started at the 15th century, so, far from modern. I think it wouldn't do justice to it to clump it together with real ongoing phonetic phenomena that are a result of Spanish influence.

    That the loss is quite recent in Tortosí I can understand because it's located between two dialects that still keep it to this day, although I must say it's very rare to hear it nowadays in Camp de Tarragona. It can only be found among some of the elderly in some of the villages.
     

    Dymn

    Senior Member
    Yes, that's the prescriptive rule on which syllable separation and therefore accentuation rules are based.

    However I'm yet to find someone pronouncing it that way (or maybe I haven't paid close attention).
     

    tenienteramires

    Senior Member
    Catalan - Occidental
    Yes, like Dymn said, in real conversation hardly nobody pronounce it with an /i/. The [j] pronunciation is used at least since the 16th century and it's common to all romance languages
     
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