Pronunciation of 'durch'

toutey

Senior Member
American English
My German professor used to pronounce it like I'd imagine a German would pronounce 'duich'. Is this a common pronunciation? He's the only one I've ever heard say it like that, so I'm a little curious.
 
  • Hutschi

    Senior Member
    It is quite common.
    In this position the "r" is not rolled in the most regions I know. Indeed, it sounds like "duich" rather than durrch than.
    Standard pronunciation is with slightly rolled "r" (Duden transcription: "r")

    PS:
    The effect is, that "r" is replaced by a "schwa"-sound, and this is adapted in an assimilation process to the following "ch"-sound (which sounds like "ch" in "ich").
    I think this effect does not occur in Switzerland - because they speak the "ch" like in "bach" after each vowel.
     
    Last edited:

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    If duich is meant to represent [dʊɩç] it is not standard. As Hutschi said, the realization of /r/ as an a-shwa [dʊɐç] is standard. It is not exactly the same sound, but [ɐ] approximately the like the u in English hut, only a bit shorter.
     

    Hutschi

    Senior Member
    The Duden Bd. 6 ("Das Aussprachewörterbuch") gives
    [dʊrç] (with "r") as standard.

    But I did not hear this version often.
    At least in my region
    [dʊɐç] is the standard pronunciation with variation (by assimilation) to [dʊɐɩç] and [dʊɩç] .

    (After [ɐ] it is difficult to speak ç without connecting them by an intermediate sound.)

    Thanks for providing the IPA letters, Bernd. I did not find them until now when using Firefox instead of Internet Explorer.

    Is there a place where a dictionary gives
    [dʊɐç] as standard? This would be interesting for me because I mostly speak it this way.

    Best regards
    Bernd
     

    toutey

    Senior Member
    American English
    If duich is meant to represent [dʊɩç] it is not standard. As Hutschi said, the realization of /r/ as an a-shwa [dʊɐç] is standard. It is not exactly the same sound, but [ɐ] approximately the like the u in English hut, only a bit shorter.
    It was definitely an ' i ' - sound (as in 'ich'), not a schwa, so from what I can tell, having reviewed some IPA pronunciations, [dʊɩç] is what I meant by 'duich'. I had a feeling it wasn't really a standard pronunciation since I haven't heard any other native speakers use it. I was mostly wondering if it's a common pronunciation, or if it's more of a regional one (e.g., particular to Hamburg, where he's from).

    Thanks for your replies, berndf and Hutschi. :)


     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    In Hamburg, especially in Altona (today a part of Hamburg), I would have described it as [dʊɛç] or even [duɛç]. I guess that's what he meant. [dʊɩç] might be possible as well, it has been a while that I left Hamburg (I was born there but lived only a total of less than 5 years it the city). At any rate, this would be very non-standard and every native speaker would know that.
     
    Last edited:

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    The Duden Bd. 6 ("Das Aussprachewörterbuch") gives
    [dʊrç] (with "r") as standard.

    But I did not hear this version often.
    At least in my region
    [dʊɐç] is the standard pronunciation with variation (by assimilation) to [dʊɐɩç] and [dʊɩç] .

    (After [ɐ] it is difficult to speak ç without connecting them by an intermediate sound.)

    Thanks for providing the IPA letters, Bernd. I did not find them until now when using Firefox instead of Internet Explorer.

    Is there a place where a dictionary gives
    [dʊɐç] as standard? This would be interesting for me because I mostly speak it this way.

    Best regards
    Bernd
    I think "r" means "whatever the realization of /r/ might be". Otherwise you would have to list too many variants. This is also clear because [r] is cerntainly not the most typical realization of /r/ in modern German.
     

    Lykurg

    Senior Member
    German
    In Hamburg, especially in Altona (today a part of Hamburg), I would have described it as [dʊɛç] or even [duɛç]. I guess that's what he meant. [dʊɩç] might be possible as well, it has been a while that I left Hamburg (I was born there but lived only a total of less than 5 years it the city). At any rate, this would be very non-standard and every native speaker would know that.
    Being born in Hamburg and living there (in fact in the urban borough (Bezirk) of Altona) I nearly agree. I would transliterate my normal pronunciation with [dʊəç], but from others I hear the variants [dʊɛç], [dʊɩç], and sometimes even [duɛç]. I'm not so sure about allocating these pronunciation variants to certain Hamburgian regions, though. In my opinion the social background will have a stronger effect on it than the Stadtteil.
     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    In my opinion the social background will have a stronger effect on it than the Stadtteil.
    Might well be. Like in all big cities, sociolects are very strong. I somehow (maybe I am wrong) associate excessive use of the open e with Altona and Eimsbüttel. I still remember hearing "banäänen fünd ne määk" on the "Wochenmarkt". In other parts of the city you would rather hear the typical Low German pronunciation of "Mark" with the Low German open a, somewhere between [ma:k] and [mɔ:k].
     
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