pronunciation of "fracas"
- Thread starter susanna76
- Start date
English: FRAK-are
US: FRAC as in 'brake" and 'as' as in 'us' as in 'wondr-ous'
('us' has a 'z' sound. Can someone better explain 'us' without a 'z' sound - more with an 's' sound - please? (without resorting to phonetics).
(I've just cross-checked my understanding with Cambridge dictionary, which also gives audio pronunciation guides in both 'languages'.)
US: FRAC as in 'brake" and 'as' as in 'us' as in 'wondr-ous'
('us' has a 'z' sound. Can someone better explain 'us' without a 'z' sound - more with an 's' sound - please? (without resorting to phonetics).
(I've just cross-checked my understanding with Cambridge dictionary, which also gives audio pronunciation guides in both 'languages'.)
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I agree with dictionary.com
MilkyBarKid's version only works for those with a non-rhotic accent
Merriam-Webster gives two US pronunciations, one FRAH-kus, the other FREY-kus.
I have never heard this pronounced before. I enjoyed listening
MilkyBarKid's version only works for those with a non-rhotic accent
Merriam-Webster gives two US pronunciations, one FRAH-kus, the other FREY-kus.
I have never heard this pronounced before. I enjoyed listening
Hi panj,
The M-W audio file gives only [FRAK-uhs]:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?fracas01.wav=fracas
The M-W entry gives [FREY-kuhs and FRAK-uhs]. Does anyone say FREY-kuhs, I wonder?
So in BrE it's something like [FRAK-uhs] but without the final S.
The M-W audio file gives only [FRAK-uhs]:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?fracas01.wav=fracas
The M-W entry gives [FREY-kuhs and FRAK-uhs]. Does anyone say FREY-kuhs, I wonder?
So in BrE it's something like [FRAK-uhs] but without the final S.
I had a smile on my face, as well. I can see how the Brits and Americans would smirk at each other considering how far apart their pronunciations are.
While I'm sympathetic to the accuracy of the British version, I'm afraid I was raised as a FREY-kus. I could change, of course, but considering my adopted city and being surrounded by both Brits and Americans, I tend to avoid the spoken word entirely.
Edit: I think I've just answered both panj and susanna. (Just to be sure: I do, susanna.)
While I'm sympathetic to the accuracy of the British version, I'm afraid I was raised as a FREY-kus. I could change, of course, but considering my adopted city and being surrounded by both Brits and Americans, I tend to avoid the spoken word entirely.
Edit: I think I've just answered both panj and susanna. (Just to be sure: I do, susanna.)
M-W has two speech icons in the version I look at.
Both give US pronunciation - one frah, the other frey.
Both give US pronunciation - one frah, the other frey.
My Merriam-Webster gives \ˈfrā-kəs, ˈfra-, British ˈfra-ˌkä\ and there are a total of 5 sound icons on the page.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fracas
I myself would ordinarily not consult the opinions expressed by Charles Harrington Elster in The Big Book of Beastly Mispronunciations: The Complete Opinionated Guide for the Careful Speaker, because I go by the principle that usage is king and he appears to scorn that principle. However, on the history of the pronunciation, Elster says that the preferred pronunciation in American English of fracas given in dictionaries was FRAY-kus until Webster's Third New International Dictionary (1961) listed FRAK-us as a variant.
The Century Dictionary, an American dictionary of 1895, does indeed give FRAY-kus as the only English one, while marking the silent-s pronunciation as French.
Elster prefers the FRAY-kus pronunciation, and quotes an author (Holt, 1937) as agreeing on that point:
The Century Dictionary, an American dictionary of 1895, does indeed give FRAY-kus as the only English one, while marking the silent-s pronunciation as French.
Elster prefers the FRAY-kus pronunciation, and quotes an author (Holt, 1937) as agreeing on that point:
They are all de facto. There is no law of correctness of pronunciation, there are only preferred forms. But it would be quite useful if the choice was small. It just isn't that way.
GF..
I may have misled you (maybe not) in my pronunciation -- I said FREY-kus, thinking the frey was pronounced fray.
To be more exact, I say FRAY-kus (to rhyme with make us). Not FREY-kus (to rhyme with freak us).
In that case I've been misleading too.
I wrote FREY-kus, which in my head sounds exactly like FRAY-kus, just as grey sounds like gray.
I assume that it is etymologically related to "fracture", and pronounce it accordingly.
I'm not sure what you mean here. I pronounce "us" with an "s" sound.
Thank goodness for WR, I'm in the frak-ah camp and would probably have superciliously assumed any fray-kass people didn't know the "correct" pronunciation.
In fact, the two words are etymologically unrelated (fracas shares a root with cassation and quash, and the fra- part is related to infra- and inferior). But it doesn't matter: folk etymologies can have a real influence on the spelling and pronunciation of words, and I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be case here.
I say [ˈfreɪkəs], probably influenced by fray (which is also etymologically unrelated).
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Old thread revival alert.
Just saw the word fracas in a BBC News headline and wondered about the various pronunciations. WR is just the place to find them
The comment above makes me think the MilkyBarKid is from the north of England where the word us can have a z sound.