Pronunciation: poдственник

Alan Evangelista

Senior Member
Brazilian Portuguese
Hi, all!

Is the consonant "в" pronounced in "рoдственник" ? Wiktionary says so in its IPA phonetic transcription, but I don't hear it neither in the the corresponding Wiktionary audio, nor in Forvo audios.

Thanks in advance!
 
  • Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    I clearly hear "в" in all Forvo audios as well as in Wiktionary file. Just try to pronounce it without "в", and you will notice the difference.
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Russian /в/ is rather lax (closer to [ʋ] than to actual [v] which we can see in English), and it is also true for the palatalized variant. After all, Russians have troubles distinguishing /v/ from /w/ in English for a reason.
     

    Eirwyn

    Member
    Russian
    This is weird. Somehow you manage to notice many phonetic tendencies occurring in Russian speech that native speakers can't hear, yet you always fail to distinguish pronunciations containing them from ones that lack these changes. Yes, [в'] is actually omitted in the Wiktionary and szss' pronunciations of the word "родственник", but the other recordings on Forvo clearly have it. Even though it's quite common to blend [в] and [в'] into surrounding vowels in colloquial speech, I would strongly recommend you not to do it. Firstly, pronouncing these consonants does not make one's speech sound any less vivid or natural (as long as it's [ʋ]/[ʋʲ] and not [v]/[vʲ], of course), and secondly, since this phonetic phenomenon is completely unnoticeable for native speakers, no one's really going to be able to tell you what vowels need to be pronounced instead of these sound combinations anyway.
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    I believe that [ʋʲ] in [-[t̪ˠʋʲɪ-] may be poorly audible simply for acoustic reasons.
    Of course, in relaxed fast speech "родственник" may get reduced down to ['ɾɔʦ:nʲɪk] (or to any of the intermediate stages), but that's a different matter.
     

    Alan Evangelista

    Senior Member
    Brazilian Portuguese
    I clearly hear "в" in all Forvo audios as well as in Wiktionary file.
    TBH I have randomly heard only two of them before. I can clearly hear [v] in the audios from RePirate, AlexanderNevzorov, zhivanova but not at all in the audios from bazich (first one) and szss.

    Russian /в/ is rather lax (closer to [ʋ] than to actual [v] which we can see in English), and it is also true for the palatalized variant.
    That might explain my difficulty of hearing the в in some of these Forvo audio samples. I assume that в is closer to [ʋ] in these two audios I mentioned above?
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    It's really difficult to compare. It's certainly less audible, though (still I would exclude szss's record from the comparison - it is just of too low quality).
     

    Eirwyn

    Member
    Russian
    How? :confused:

    I immediately start perceiving it as "тыни" the moment it's cut out of the context. The spectrogram also doesn't seem to show any traces of an additional sound between [t] and [ɪ]. I believe your mind is playing a trick on you.
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Curiously, it sounds more like that through my loudspeakres indeed. At first I used the headphones of my smartphone. But now it sounds to me like that through the headphones as well (even though I cannot reproduce the initial surrounding). It alsmost resembles that notorious "Yanny vs. Laurel" audio (where I managed to hear the both in a random fashion).
     
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