pronunciation: produce [as 'pro-juice'?]

jiamajia

Senior Member
Mandarin
Is it a variant that native speakers may pronounce the word pro'duce (verb) as pro-'juice?

Thank you.
 
  • JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Yes, there was a recent thread on a similar situation (the hard t in tune and d as in duty) and this is the same thing.

    This applies only in those people that do not say pro-dooce :D
     

    brian

    Senior Member
    AmE (New Orleans)
    In AmE, the -du- in produce is pronounced [du], just like do. In BrE, however, I think it may be pronounced EITHER as [dju] (dyu), just like BrE due, OR as [dʒu], where [dʒ] is IPA for the hard j sound in juice. In other words, [dj] becomes [dʒ]. However, I don't think due is ever pronounced [dʒu], which would be homophonous with Jew.

    Similarly, in BrE some words with -tu-, like Tuesday, have [tju], but I'm not sure if that can become [tʃu], like the ch- in choose. That is, I don't know if Tuesday can be pronounced like choose-day.
     

    Alxmrphi

    Senior Member
    UK English
    However, I don't think due is ever pronounced [dʒu], which would be homophonous with Jew.
    Due / Jew are homophonous in BE generally brian :p
    The [j] dropped in AE, but underwent yod-coalescence in BrE (Yod-coalescence).

    Wikipedia source (quoted above) said:
    It leads to the words dew, due, and Jew being pronounced identically. Yod-coalescence has traditionally been considered non-RP.
     

    jiamajia

    Senior Member
    Mandarin
    Thank you for the replies.

    [dju:] and [du:] (as in duce)are variants, but [dʒu:] (as in juice) is sort of wrong pronunciation. ---Is this current understanding of mine right?
     

    brian

    Senior Member
    AmE (New Orleans)
    None of my BE-speaking friends have coalesced the [j] in stressed syllables (that I can tell), and the Wikipedia article doesn't say it occurs generally in BE. (It does list Cockney and Estuary English, though.)

    Many dialects of Canadian English also still have [j]. I don't think [j]-coalescence ever occurs in stressed syllables though. (Assume is one of the most common, and always has [sj], not [ʃ].)
     

    Alxmrphi

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Are you sure it might not be something you haven't picked up on?
    RP is (to my knowledge) the only variety of non-coalescence, and that version is reflective of about 5-10% of the population. I am not saying I don't believe you, but I really struggle to accept that multiple non-RP speakers don't have coalesced yod in stressed syllables. :eek: Surely they have choo-na (tuna)as well?

    I'm less sure about the general status of "assume" with the postalveolar affricate, but that's the only pronunciation acceptable where I am from. Without [j] it sounds distinctly American, and very RP to keep it in, and others have [ʃ] . Apparently Wells only considers it a minor pronunciation, which has surprised me a lot. However, I did say I was less sure of this in comparison to the [t] / [d] types.
     
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    brian

    Senior Member
    AmE (New Orleans)
    I've never consciously tried picking up on it, and I also don't have that many BE friends here, so who knows, but I would think I'd notice the peculiarity of hearing, for example, a-SHOOM for assume. :) I'll listen better and report back.

    At the same time, it's certainly not out of the question. Even in AE, where yods have been dropped from many a word, we still do 'yod-coalescence' across word boundaries. For example, would you is (more often than not, at least for me) pronounced like wuh-jew, i.e. [wʊ.dʒu], though most people probably don't realize it.
     

    Alxmrphi

    Senior Member
    UK English
    For example, would you is (more often than not, at least for me) pronounced like wuh-jew, i.e. [wʊ.dʒu], though most people probably don't realize it.
    And herein lies the nature of phonetics, what people say and what people think they say can be / usually are two hugely different things. :D
     

    natkretep

    Moderato con anima (English Only)
    English (Singapore/UK), basic Chinese
    Thank you for the replies.

    [dju:] and [du:] (as in duce)are variants, but [dʒu:] (as in juice) is sort of wrong pronunciation. ---Is this current understanding of mine right?

    Sorry, jiamajia - in case this wasn't clear from the discussion - no, the [dʒu:] in not wrong. It is common particularly in some varieties of BE, and words like dune and June are pronounced identically.
     
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