Pronunciation: Sandro Rosell

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LoveVanPersie

Senior Member
Mandarin, Hakka
How is Sandro Rosell pronounced in central Catalan?
Is Sandro a Spanish name so pronounced with an unreduced o? After looking it up on dictionaries, I think so but I'm not 100% sure.
I heard Rosell pronounced /ruˈseʎ/ on some YouTube videos (most of which on the channel TV3), with intervocalic s pronounced /s/ instead of /z/. Did I mishear it? As for the /e/, althouth I can't distinguish between it and /ɛ/, DCVB says it comes from ros + diminitive suffix -ell, which is transcribed /ˈeʎ/ on Wiktionary.
 
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  • Dymn

    Senior Member
    How is Sandro Rosell pronounced in central Catalan?
    /ˈsandɾu ˈruseʎ/.

    On a side note, there's some tendency in Central Catalan, mainly in Barcelona, to pronounce even Catalan surnames without reducing the o, for example Colau as /koˈlau̯/ or Rosell as /ˈroseʎ/, but I'd advise against it.

    Is Sandro a Spanish name so pronounced with an unreduced o? After looking it up on dictionaries, I think so but I'm not 100% sure.
    I don't think so. It's just a nickname of his official name which is Alexandre, which is Catalan. I've always heard it /ˈsandɾu/.

    I heard Rosell pronounced /ruˈseʎ/ on some YouTube videos (most of which on the channel TV3), with intervocalic s pronounced /s/ instead of /z/. Did I mishear it?
    No, you're right. The pronunciation is correct, ros takes voiceless /s/ in its derivatives: rossa, rossos... It's the spelling which probably at some point was Castilianized (because Spanish has no such distinction and only spells one s). In the standard this would be Rossell.

    As for the /e/, althouth I can't distinguish between it and /ɛ/, DCVB says it comes from ros + diminitive suffix -ell, which is transcribed /ˈeʎ/ on Wiktionary.
    Yes, with /e/.
     

    LoveVanPersie

    Senior Member
    Mandarin, Hakka
    to pronounce even Catalan surnames without reducing the o
    Excluding first names and other words?

    /ˈruseʎ/.
    Rosell as /ˈroseʎ/
    Is the stress symbol on the first syllable a typo?

    I don't think so. It's just a nickname of his official name which is Alexandre, which is Catalan. I've always heard it /ˈsandɾu/.
    I know Alexandre is Catalan, but Sandro seems a Spanish nickname of the Spanish equivalent Alejandro. And I think I have heard the o unreduced...
     

    LoveVanPersie

    Senior Member
    Mandarin, Hakka
    It's possible, but I think it's usually pronounced /u/.
    But on 3 videos where Sandro was pronounced clearly enough for me to identify, it was only /-o/. A coincidence?... o_O They are:
    Andrés Maluenda, advocat de Sandro Rosell, explica com s'ha viscut la seva absolució (at 0:52)
    TV3 - Hat-trick Barça - Hat-trick Barça: entrevista a Sandro Rosell (at 2:00)
    Les últimes hores de Sandro Rosell - Crackòvia - TV3 (at 0:08)

    Did newscasters you heard really mostly pronounce /-u/?


    No, you're right. The pronunciation is correct, ros takes voiceless /s/ in its derivatives: rossa, rossos... It's the spelling which probably at some point was Castilianized (because Spanish has no such distinction and only spells one s). In the standard this would be Rossell.
    How about Rosel of Laura Rosel? I heard it pronounced in Spanish way on 2 YouTube videos of TV3.
     
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    Doraemon-

    Senior Member
    "Spanish - Spain" "Catalan - Valencia"
    Sandro is a familiar name for Alejandro (from the Spanish voice). In standard eastern catalan it would be /ˈsandɾu/ but you can hear it both ways because it can be pronounced as in Spanish, being a Spanish word.

    It's similar with Rosell. In catalan it's Rossell, with two S, so /s/ and not /z/. It's pronounced /ruˈseʎ/, but many surnames follow a Spanish ortography. Reading it in Catalan from the Spanish ortography of the original Catalan word it would be /ruˈzeʎ/ (as wikipedia states). In Spanish it's /roˈseʎ/. So you can hear it in several ways, although /ruˈseʎ/ is the most common one.

    Please notice that the stress in the surname is in the last syllable (there has been some involuntary mistake in the responses).
     

    Dymn

    Senior Member
    Are you sure newscasters you heard mostly pronounced /-u/?
    No, I'm not :oops: . I've watched some other videos and they also say /o/. Weird. I don't know what do you need those pronunciations for, but I guess both could go. Let's wait for more Central Catalan speakers.

    How about Rosel of Laura Rosel? I heard it pronounced in Spanish way on 2 YouTube videos of TV3.
    Yes, that's the pronunciation they used at FAQS when she presented the program. I don't think the surname is Catalan anyway.
     

    Penyafort

    Senior Member
    Catalan (Catalonia), Spanish (Spain)
    It is true that Sandro is rather Italian than Catalan, as it seems to come from Alessandro. The correct short form for the Catalan Alexandre is Xandre, as Catalan short forms are traditionally produced by using the final syllables of a name, not the first ones. That means that neither Àlex or Sandro are really Catalan. However, they are far more used than Xandre, particularly Àlex. Sandro isn't as common. The female form Sandra is very common, though. People often don't even associate it with Alexandra any more. It is also true that some varieties add an -o to the short forms. In Valencian it's relatively common . And they don't reduce -o's into u.

    Regarding Rossell, the fact of seeing it with non-standard spellings such as Rosel, Russel, etc, doesn't make it less Catalan. It is not exclusively Catalan though, but rather from the whole Gallo-Romance area as a typical derivative of the word ros (which means blond/redhead in Catalan but also in Occitan and Old French, today roux in French) plus the diminutive suffix -ell. From the same origin, via Old French, comes the English surname Russell.

    Yet the fact that it's the same surname with a different spelling (I'm talking about Rosel now) doesn't seem reason enough to some Catalans and they prefer to read it either as [ru'zeʎ] or worse, interpreting that it is Spanish, which isn't, [ro'sel].

    However, as it's often the case with names, the owner decides. So maybe the newcasters know what the owner likes to be called like, and so they just do the obvious.
     

    Doraemon-

    Senior Member
    "Spanish - Spain" "Catalan - Valencia"
    Isn't it /-l/ because in Spanish there isn't /ʎ/ in the coda?
    No. Many Castilian speakers don't know how to pronounce an ending -ll, not existing in Castilian/Spanish, so it's very common to hear Sabadel, Rosel, etc. (or Sabadei, Rosei...) from Spanish speakers out of Catalan speaking areas, but the "correct" pronounciation is with an /ʎ/ (and especially if you pronounce in Catalan a Catalan word, even if it's written following Spanish ortography).
     

    Penyafort

    Senior Member
    Catalan (Catalonia), Spanish (Spain)
    By the way, as soon as I saw your name, I wondered its pronunciation again... Is the IPA /ˌpɛɲəˈfɔɾ/ on Wikipedia correct?
    Many certainly would say it that way, as t's are often silent after liquid consonants. But I pronounce the -t in fort and I do so too in penyafort, just as I do in aeroport, julivert, etc. :)

    PS: When speaking fast, sometimes I drop them, that's also true.
     
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