Pronunciation: th-, -th, -thes

J

Jose85

New Member
Mexico
How is "breaths" pronunced? If the plural of "mess" is pronunced "messes", is "breaths" pronunced "bresses"? Or is it pronunced simply "bress", being indistinctioned from the singular "breath"?
 
    • Both the /th/ and the /s/ are pronounced, and both unvoiced. And I see by your rhyming examples you know it's a short e, not like the one in breathe.

    I don't think people elide the /th/ and say "bress." the th-ss succession is not all that hard to pronounce.

    .
     
    Jose85 said:
    How is "breaths" pronunced? If the plural of "mess" is pronounced "messes", is "breaths" pronunced "bresses"? Or is it pronunced simply "bress", being indistinctioned from the singular "breath"?
    Click to expand...

    It's pronounced like 'breath' with a /s/ on the end: /b-r-e-th-s/. Not easy at all for many foreign learners!
     
    It's a difficult word to pronounce, because of the [th] + [s] sounds. No, there is no vowel between them. You just have to listen to native speakers, and practice until you get it.
     
    Okay, so "breaths" is not pronunced "bress".

    Well, are the following words homophones?:

    baths - bass
    paths - pass
    myths - miss
    moths - moss
    mouths - mouse

    I've been pronuncing those words the same way. I guess I've been wrong.

    Does "booths" rhyme with "moose"?
    ​
     
    No, those words are do not rhyme in careful speech, although they can sound alike when talking fast.

    I think one way to make the "ths" sound is by pronouncing "th" and then "blowing" with your tongue. It's all done with the tongue.
     
    Jose85 said:
    How is "breaths" pronunced? If the plural of "mess" is pronunced "messes", is "breaths" pronunced "bresses"? Or is it pronunced simply "bress", being indistinctioned from the singular "breath"?
    Click to expand...

    How do you pronounce the word "breathe"? It should be pronounced with the "th" sound. Accordingly, "breath" is pronounced with only the change of the sound of the "ea". The "th" sound remains in "breath" and "breaths".
     
    Dimcl said:
    How do you pronounce the word "breathe"? It should be pronounced with the "th" sound. Accordingly, "breath" is pronounced with only the change of the sound of the "ea". The "th" sound remains in "breath" and "breaths".
    Click to expand...


    There are two "th" sounds, which I'll refer to here as

    [th] for the terminal consonant in myth.

    [th] for the initial consonant in this.

    The verb "breathe" has the [th] sound.

    The noun breath and its plural breaths have the [th] sound, as do myth and its plural myths and Goth and its plural Goths.

    Now, to complicate matters, baths, paths, moths, oaths and mouths can have either the [th] or the [th] sound. According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, the word mouths usually has the [th] sound, more rarely has the sound [z] or [th], and compounds such as blabbermouths and cottonmouths would tend to have the [th] sound.

    It seems to me, then, that the plural form of words ending in "th" must simply be committed to memory, with no useful general rule to tell when [th] or [th] is used.
     
    mplsray said:
    There are two "th" sounds, which I'll refer to here as

    [th] for the terminal consonant in myth.

    [th] for the initial consonant in this.

    The verb "breathe" has the [th] sound.

    The noun breath and its plural breaths have the [th] sound, as do myth and its plural myths and Goth and its plural Goths.

    Now, to complicate matters, baths, paths, moths, oaths and mouths can have either the [th] or the [th] sound. According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, the word mouths usually has the [th] sound, more rarely has the sound [z] or [th], and compounds such as blabbermouths and cottonmouths would tend to have the [th] sound.

    It seems to me, then, that the plural form of words ending in "th" must simply be committed to memory, with no useful general rule to tell when [th] or [th] is used.
    Click to expand...

    I'm sorry, but I disagree that there are two forms of "th". The "th" sound in the word "this" is said (in terms of the tongue on the teeth) in exactly the same way as the "th" sound in "bath". It is only the vowel sound that changes. In both of your examples, the tongue slightly protrudes out and against the top teeth. The action required to say "breath" and "breathe" is exactly the same.
     
    Dimcl said:
    I'm sorry, but I disagree that there are two forms of "th". The "th" sound in the word "this" is said (in terms of the tongue on the teeth) in exactly the same way as the "th" sound in "bath". It is only the vowel sound that changes. In both of your examples, the tongue slightly protrudes out and against the top teeth. The action required to say "breath" and "breathe" is exactly the same.
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    Are you saying that there is no difference (in the "th" sounds) between breath & breathe ; bath & this ?

    To me, there is quite a difference - one I would describe as a softer sound than the other one

    (similar to the difference between "f" and "v")
     
    I agree with Trina. The "th" in "breathe" and the one in "breath" are two distinct sounds that just happen to be represented the same way in writing. Arabic happens to have both of these sounds, with a different letter for each - and it wouldn't occur to anyone to consider them the same sound.
     
    In the north of England you will hear 'bath' similar to the AE pronunciation.

    A similar distinction of the 'th' sound in 'breath' and 'breathes' exists between the noun and 3rd personal singular of the verb forms of 'mouth'.
     
    Personally I can't notice a difference on the sound of "th" between "breath" and "breathe", no doubt they are two different words, but exactly with the same "th" sound. Now the "th" on the word "this" it is very different, it is fonetically a "d".
     
    Trina said:
    Are you saying that there is no difference (in the "th" sounds) between breath & breathe ; bath & this ?

    To me, there is quite a difference - one I would describe as a softer sound than the other one

    (similar to the difference between "f" and "v")
    Click to expand...

    No, I'm saying they're both formulated in the same way with the tongue against the teeth. If said extremely slowly, the change in sound is caused by the different vowel pronunciation. My explanation is a result of the original confusion over the "ss" and "th" pronunciation. Said slowly, the "th" in "breathe" and "breath" are formulated exactly the same way in the mouth. The difference in pronunciation comes from how the vowels are formed. Try saying "bre" and "brea" without the th sound... Then add the "th". The "th" is formed in exactly the same way in both words.
     
    What about "CLOTHES"? It doesn't seem that the cluster TH + S is always pronounced. What do you guys say? Is this a special case? Does this happen only with some varieties of English?
     
    Clothes - we pronounce the th here, it is the same as the thes at the end of breathes. Check out the WR dictionary entry for clothes.

    Others will pronounce clothes more or less the same as close.
    Oh, that's close as in close the door, not close meaning not far away:)

    There are wide national and regional variations in many of the topics already covered in this thread, which make life fascinating for natives and difficult for others.

    << Mod Note:
    Please keep to the general topic of th pronunciation.
    Panj >>
     
    No doubt "close" and "clothes" are both pronounced the same way. At least that is what I hear from native speakers.

    Now, I wants to know if the following words are homophones:

    thin, tin

    three, tree

    then, den

    breathes, breeds

    booth, boot

    I've have been pronouncing them the same way. Have I been wrong? If so, what's the difference?
    ​
     
    Okay, well how do I pronounce "then" so that it's distinction from "den" and "booth" so that it's distinction from "boot"?
    ​
     
    duckie said:
    panja, you mean pronounce 'clothes' with a voiced s? As in 'cloze'?
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    I pronounce the -thes at the end of clothes the same as the -thes at the end of breathes.
    Listen to the WR pronunciation of clothes and then close.

    Hitch57 said:
    Now, I wants to know if the following words are homophones:
    thin, tin
    three, tree
    then, den
    breathes, breeds
    booth, boot
    Click to expand...
    None of those are homophones for me.
    The th is pronounced as in the "How to pronounce th in English" thread. Not like t or d.
     
    Hitch57 said:
    Okay, well how do I pronounce "then" so that it's distinction from "den" and "booth" so that it's distinction from "boot"?​
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    By taking time and training your tongue and mouth.
    Then starts with a soft sound. Den starts with a hard sound.
    Booth ends with a soft sound. Boot ends with a hard sound.

    .,,
     
    Hitch57 said:
    Okay, well how do I pronounce "then" so that it's distinction from "den" and "booth" so that it's distinction from "boot"?
    ​
    Click to expand...

    To make the TH sound you need to stick out your tongue a little bit so that it gets placed between the upper and lower teeth. At that position you can make the two TH sounds, which differ only in that one is voiced and the other isn't just as F is unvoiced and V is voiced.

    To make the D and the T sounds you need to block the air flow by sticking your tonge against the soft palate (the ridge of the palate a little behind your teeth). Again, the difference between them is that the D is voiced and the T is unvoiced and plosive(=you let go of some air as you move the tongue).
     
    PolCas said:
    To make the TH sound you need to stick out your tongue a little bit so that it gets placed between the upper and lower teeth. At that position you can make the two TH sounds, which differ only in that one is voiced and the other isn't just as F is unvoiced and V is voiced.

    To make the D and the T sounds you need to block the air flow by sticking your tonge against the soft palate (the ridge of the palate a little behind your teeth). Again, the difference between them is that the D is voiced and the T is unvoiced and plosive(=you let go of some air as you move the tongue).
    Click to expand...

    Okay, I think the problem is is that I am substituting the "t" and "d" sounds for the voiceless and voiced "th" sounds. Thanks you for the explanation on how to make the "th" sounds.
     
    Hitch57 said:
    Okay, I think the problem is is that I am substituting the "t" and "d" sounds for the voiceless and voiced "th" sounds. Thanks you for the explanation on how to make the "th" sounds.
    Click to expand...

    You're welcome.
    Check this out:
    http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/english/frameset.html

    For the THs go to MANNER --> FRICATIVE and you'll see two sounds at the Lingua-Dental level. One is the voiced TH and the other is the unvoiced one.

    For the T and D go to MANNER --> STOP and there you'll have them at the ligua-alveolar level.

    Have fun.
     
    Hello everybody, I 'm french and I have some pronunciation questions :
    1) "I want the" : do you pronounce the "t" of want?
    2) Beyond the : " do you pronounce the "d" of beyond?
    3) "With celebrities" : do you pronounce the "c" of celebrities?

    thank you in advance!
     
    1) "I want the" : do you pronounce the "t" of want? - Yes
    2) Beyond the : " do you pronounce the "d" of beyond? - Yes
    3) "With celebrities" : do you pronounce the "c" of celebrities? - Yes, as in sell
     
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