Pronunciation: the surname "Deulofeu"

[LoveVanPersie]

How is the surname Deulofeu (as in Gerard Deulofeu and Alexandre Deulofeu) pronounced in Standard Catalan/Central Catalan?
DCVB says it's from "Déu lo féu". So the main question is whether the first e of Deulofeu is reduced to a schwa /ə/? That is, is it pronounced /ˌdewluˈfew/ or /dəwluˈfew/ or both are valid?
A word with similar spelling déu-vos-guard is transcribed as /ˌdew.βuzˈɡwart/ (central) on Wiktionary. But I think I have heard the first syllable of Deulofeu be pronounced /dəw/ on some YouTube videos?

 

[Dymn]

I personally pronounce it /dəwlufɛw/, so not only with a reduced vowel but also changing the quality of the last vowel to an open e.

The reason for this change is that we don't think about the etymology and -eu (hereu, europeu, museu) is more often pronounced with an open e than with a closed one.

At any rate it would come across as weird to me if I heard the first syllable pronounced as /dew/.

But I think I have heard the first syllable of Deulofeu be pronounced /dəw/ on some YouTube videos?

Most likely yes.

A word with similar spelling déu-vos-guard is transcribed as /ˌdew.βuzˈɡwart/ (central) on Wiktionary.

Déu vos guard on the other hand is indeed pronounced without reducing the vowel, because each of its elements are clear to the speaker when read out loud.

 

[LoveVanPersie]

Thanks for your help Dymn!
And by the way, are the stressed open/close vowels of Bartomeu /-ew/, Bernabeu /-ew/, Romeu /-ɛw/ transcribed correctly on Wiktionary?
What about Andorra /o/ (Longman Pronunciation Dictionary transcribes its Catalan pron. as /ɔ/), Granollers (surname and place name) /e/ (DCVB says the local pron. is /ɛ/) and Lleida /ɛ/ (DCVB says the local pron. is /e/) on Wikipedia?

 

[Dymn]

Bartomeu /-ew/

This should be /e/ (I learned it some weeks ago), but many people, me included, pronounce /ɛ/.

Bernabeu /-ew/

Hard to say, because although it is a Catalan surname, it's mostly tied to Real Madrid's stadium, and hence pronounced the Spanish way (the bearer of the surname was from Albacete and spoke no Catalan, so it's no big deal). Anyway although journalists in TV3 often Catalanize it with /ɛ/, it should be /e/ because it comes from Bernabé which is undoubtedly pronounced with the close-mid vowel.

Romeu /-ɛw/

Yes, /ɛ/. No doubt here.

Andorra /o/ (Longman Pronunciation Dictionary transcribes its Catalan pron. as /ɔ/)

Andorrans pronounce /ɔ/. In Catalonia (or most of it?), we say /o/.

Granollers (surname and place name) /e/ (DCVB says the local pron. is /ɛ/) and Lleida /ɛ/ (DCVB says the local pron. is /e/)

I didn't know those had different local pronunciations, but anyway I've always said and heard it /e/ for both cases.

Another case of differing open-closed e variations between locals and outsiders is Berga. Locals say B/e/rga. Most people outside of town on the other hand pronounce B/ɛ/rga.

 

[LoveVanPersie]

Thank you again for your patient answers!

 

[tenienteramires]

The right pronunciation in central Catalan is [ˌdewɫuˈfew] as if it was written "Déu lo feu". The reason for that is that it's a compound surname and almost all compound words in Catalan are pronounced with two accents.

Also in central Catalan they tend to pronounce all -eu endings like [-ɛw] even in cases when the traditional pronunciation is [-ew]. In Deulofeu it's [-ew]: it's [ˌdewɫuˈfew], and not [ˌdewɫuˈfɛw] or [dəwɫuˈfɛw], which are non-standard pronunciations. It's also this diphthong in the name Bartomeu: [bəɾtuˈmew] (and not [bəɾtuˈmɛw]).

 

[Dymn]

In Deulofeu it's [-ew]: it's [ˌdewɫuˈfew], and not [ˌdewɫuˈfɛw] or [dəwɫuˈfɛw], which are non-standard pronunciations.

What does non-standard mean? I would find it weird if someone pronounced /dewlufew/ while speaking Central Catalan. We're just reinterpreting it as a single word. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

 

[tenienteramires]

What does non-standard mean? I would find it weird if someone pronounced /dewlufew/ while speaking Central Catalan. We're just reinterpreting it as a single word. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Potser "estàndard" no és la paraula més apropiada. És perfectament vàlid de pronunciar [dəwɫuˈfɛw] o [dəwɫuˈfew], però tradicionalment en català fem les paraules compostes amb doble accentuació, més encara quan és un compost tan evident. Jo, en la meua parla (occidental) diria [ˌdewɫoˈfew].

 

[LoveVanPersie]

Hard to say, because although it is a Catalan surname, it's mostly tied to Real Madrid's stadium, and hence pronounced the Spanish way (the bearer of the surname was from Albacete and spoke no Catalan, so it's no big deal).

Do Catalan-speaking people always pronounce Spanish names in Spanish way even in Catalan conversation and, even if the bearers of Spanish names speak Catalan?

 

[Dymn]

Do Catalan-speaking people always pronounce Spanish names in Spanish way even in Catalan conversation and, even if the bearers of Spanish names speak Catalan?

Mostly yes, and increasingly so. For example during the Franco dictatorship the usual way to pronounce his surname was /ˈfɾaŋku/ (in Central Catalan), now it's /ˈfɾaŋko/. Some traits are likelier to be Catalanized than others. While adapting /θ/ to /s/ still can be found from time to time, /x/ to /k/ sounds so outlandish to many of us, and I've personally never heard it. I personally pronounce it the Spanish way just with minor phonetical differences, e.g. Luis Enrique I voice the s to /z/, which I don't do while speaking Spanish.

What if the name is both Catalan and Spanish, like Víctor of Víctor Sánchez?

It's irrelevant in this case because even if Víctor is also a Catalan name nobody pronounces it /ˈbiktuɾ/. Same with Àlex, nobody says /ˈaləks/. You'll notice not only Spanish words are pronounced the Spanish way. For example Londres and Berlín you'll rarely if ever hear it with the schwa (at least in day-to-day conversation, not by journalists). Pisa, risotto, lasagna... those are pronounced with /s/ even if it's /z/ in Italian which is what would make sense in Catalan too.

 

[tenienteramires]

/x/ to /k/ sounds so outlandish to many of us, and I've personally never heard it.

Some words that we use daily in colloquial Catalan are, in fact, Spanish words pronounced as if they were Catalan ones, like 'maco' or 'quefe', which are actually 'majo' and 'jefe'.

Nowadays, apart from those words, hardly nobody pronounces Spanish J like [k], only the elder speakers, especially those few who are monolingual or those who don't speak very well Spanish, like my grandmother.

 

[LoveVanPersie]

The Catalan IPA of Spanish names on Wikipedia such as López and Roberto once confused me because on some YouTube videos I heard them pronounced in Spanish way.
Thank you both for confirming the fact and letting me know more!

 

[LoveVanPersie]

Hmm... Sorry to bother you again...

I personally pronounce it /dəwlufɛw/, so not only with a reduced vowel but also changing the quality of the last vowel to an open e.

The reason for this change is that we don't think about the etymology and -eu (hereu, europeu, museu) is more often pronounced with an open e than with a closed one.

At any rate it would come across as weird to me if I heard the first syllable pronounced as /dew/.


Most likely yes.


Déu vos guard on the other hand is indeed pronounced without reducing the vowel, because each of its elements are clear to the speaker when read out loud.

I would find it weird if someone pronounced /dewlufew/ while speaking Central Catalan.

Actually, I think I have heard the first e reduced and unreduced, even during the same person's speech, like in the video Les matemàtiques de la història: hi ha fórmules per predir el futur? at 0:09 and 0:44... (Did I mishear?)
Edit: I'm not sure which pronunciation is used more...

 

[Bevj]

Please, the topic of this thread is la pronunciació de Deulofeu.
Questions about Sant, Franco and other names are way off-topic and should be discussed elsewhere.
Thank you.

 

[samarkanda]

Potser "estàndard" no és la paraula més apropiada. És perfectament vàlid de pronunciar [dəwɫuˈfɛw] o [dəwɫuˈfew], però tradicionalment en català fem les paraules compostes amb doble accentuació, més encara quan és un compost tan evident. Jo, en la meua parla (occidental) diria [ˌdewɫoˈfew].

Jo, que parlo oriental (barceloní), faig el mateix amb la primera e (tancada) i obro la segona, com has assenyalat més amunt: [ˌdewɫuˈfɛw]
Això de fer perdre una de les tòniques als mots compostos em penso que sol ser per ultracorrecció, se sent força sovint en mots com tres-cents o set-cents (en canvi, ningú no canvia la primera o de Bonanova).

 

[LoveVanPersie]

Jo, que parlo oriental (barceloní), faig el mateix amb la primera e (tancada) i obro la segona, com has assenyalat més amunt: [ˌdewɫuˈfɛw]
Això de fer perdre una de les tòniques als mots compostos em penso que sol ser per ultracorrecció, se sent força sovint en mots com tres-cents o set-cents (en canvi, ningú no canvia la primera o de Bonanova).

Moltes gràcies!