Punjabi: ਹੋਵਣ ਕੋਲ / ہوون کول

MonsieurGonzalito

Senior Member
Castellano de Argentina
Friends, this is the last non-repeated stanza of the typical Punjabi bridal song "Aaya Laariye"
My translation attempt differs too much from the "official" caption given in Coke Studio (4/9)
Could someone who knows Punjabi please tell me how wrong I am?

ਲੱਖਾਂ ਦੁਆਵਾਂ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਮਾਪੇ / ਮੰਗਦੇ ਏ ਰੱਬ ਤੋਂ ਇਹ ਵੇਲਾ
ਆਪਣੇ ਹੋਵਾਂ ਕੋਲ ਤੇ ਸਜਦਾ / ਸ਼ਗਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਇਹ ਮੇਲਾ

لکّھاں دعاواں کر کے ماپے / منگدے نیں ربّ توں اے ویلا
اپنے ہوون کول تے ساجدہ / شگناں دا ایہہ میلا
My attempt:

Parents, having made lakhs of prayers, beg (from) God for this day:
the greeting from our close ones, the occasion of this shagan


(The Nastaliq caption spells ساجدہ as " سجدا ", which I translate as "greeting")

Also, I have this specific grammar question: I know that "howan kol" means something like "close ones, those who are close", but what kind of word is "howan" exactly? An oblique infinitive?


Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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  • Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    اردو ترجمہ

    لاکھوں دعائیں کر کے ماں باپ مانگتے ہیں ربّ سے یہ بیلا/ویلا
    اپنے ہوں پاس تو سجتا (ہے) شگونوں کا یہ میلا


    - بیلا/ویلا: وقت، موقع، سماں
    - شگونوں/شگنوں: (بیاہ کی) رسموں؛ خوشیوں؛ نیک ساعتوں
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    Oh, your translation suggests that ہوون is the "long form" of the Punjabi 3rd person plural subjunctive!
    And سجنا == to be prepared, befit, adorn
    Thanks, @Alfaaz !

    New attempt:

    "Ours are close by, and (that) adorns the occasion of this festivity"

    (The Coke studio translation wasn't that far off, after all, I just needed a little grammar guidance :))
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    Explanation of the individual parts in English:
    • اپنے ہوں پاس - (if/when) one's beloveds are near/in attendance
    • تو - then
    • سجتا (ہے) - is adorned/comes to life
    • یہ میلا - this (grand) affair
    • شگونوں کا - of (marital) ceremonies/happiness/etc.
    Punjabi-speaking forum members could verify if the translations (Urdu and English) provided above are correct or not.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Thread title: Punjabi: ਹੋਵਣ ਕੋਲ / ہوون کول
    Correction: ہووݨ / ہوونڑ - hovaNR
    Also, I have this specific grammar question: I know that "howan kol" means something like "close ones, those who are close", but what kind of word is "howan" exactly? An oblique infinitive?
    It is not the meaning of "ہووݨ کول hovaNR kol", instead it is the meaning of "اپݨے apNRe". ہوونڑ / ہووݨ - hovaNR - ਹੋਵਣ کول kol: "(near-) by": yes, you have the grammar right not in this but in the following post:
    Oh, your translation suggests that ہوون is the "long form" of the Punjabi 3rd person plural subjunctive!
    What do you mean under longer and shorter forms?
    • اپنے ہوں پاس - (if/when) one's beloveds are near/in attendance
    • تو - then
    ہووݨ کول hovaNR kol taken in another way: پیسے اپنے ہووݨ کول تے has a very different meaning.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Generally you are more or less right, ݨ / نڑ is commonly not indicated, due to either significant technical difficulties on one hand or the lack of awareness or proper care on the other. The fact that Shahmukhi is hardly ever used on a daily basis by anyone, makes the instances of retroflex nuun in scarce writings and publications rare, and we could add low literacy and fluid orthographic standards to this all.

    My correction was primarily concerned with indicating the presence of the retroflex nasal in general rather than focusing on a given script for that matter: "howan" is not the right transcription either which I suggested should have been also "hovaNR".

    There are other spelling errors elsewhere but the title of the thread served me as a basis for my response, that's why I quoted it.
     
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    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    marrish said:
    ہووݨ کول hovaNR kol taken in another way: پیسے اپنے ہووݨ کول تے has a very different meaning.
    Are you suggesting that the English translation might not be applicable to every case or are you indicating that پیسے is implied in this specific context?
    marrish said:
    Generally you are more or less right, ݨ / نڑ is commonly not indicated, due to either significant technical difficulties on one hand or the lack of awareness or proper care on the other. The fact that Shahmukhi is hardly ever used on a daily basis by anyone, makes the instances of retroflex nuun in scarce writings and publications rare, and we could add low literacy and fluid orthographic standards to this all.
    In addition to all of these aspects, it was mentioned in previous threads that some speakers (and performers) might not use retroflex nuun or might choose to use it at certain places, while not in others (paanii and jawaanii in one stanza, but paaNRii and nimaaNRii in another, etc.).
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    What do you mean under longer and shorter forms?

    Per my (Hindi) grammar book, some subjunctive forms of होना have an alternative "long" form with a "ve" infix, i.e.: हो / होवे, हों / होवें
    I assumed that the same thing occurs in Punjabi and that ہوں / ہووݨ were both valid 3rd person plural forms.

    (I am sorry, I don't even know how to write the NR yet)
     
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