Punjabi: bandaa/bandah

marrish

Senior Member
اُردو Urdu
In the thread "behave/behaviour", the Punjabi phrase 'bandah baNR jaa' was mentioned.

bandaa is a common noun meaning a (hu)man, to the best of my knowledge. I am not sure whether it should be spelt with -ah or -aa ending but I tend to go with the latter.

What is more intriguing is the etymology, apart from the usage. The Turner's Comparative Dictionary of the Indo-Aryan languages has an entry for the feminine bandii:

bandī
9135 bandī f. ʻ captive slave -- girl ʼ Bhaṭṭ., bandin -- m. ʻ captive ʼ BhP. [Formed with f. suffix -- ī -- from *banda -- ← MPers. bandag ʻ slave -- girl ʼ P. Thieme ZDMG 91, 88]
Pk. baṁdī -- f. ʻ female slave ʼ, baṁda -- n. ʻ prisoner ʼ; P. bandī f., °dā m. ʻ slave ʼ, WPah. (Joshi) bã̄dī m., A. bāndi f., B. bã̄dī, OH. bã̄da m., H. bã̄dī f., M. bã̄dī f., °dā m.; -- OSi. (10 cent.) bädiʻ slaves ʼ rather <
bandhita -- .

Bhatt. is for 'Bhaṭṭikāvya' (9th century Sanskrit work) * indicates 'hypothetical', ← 'is a loanword from', BhP 'Bhāgavata-Purāṇa' (4th-10th century), Pk. 'Prakrit' and P. 'Punjabi'.

I have two questions: is this dictionary wrong by ascribing the meaning 'slave' for Punjabi?
Is it possible that the Punjabi word has a different etymology?
 
  • mundiya

    Senior Member
    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    No, the dictionary isn't wrong. One of the meanings of Punjabi "bandaa" is slave or servant, but the more common one is man or person.

    EDIT: The meaning of slave seems to be inherited from Prakrit and Sanskrit and indirectly a loanword from Persian. The meaning of man is probably from a different route but same Persian etymology.
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    [...]I have two questions: is this dictionary wrong by ascribing the meaning 'slave' for Punjabi?
    Is it possible that the Punjabi word has a different etymology?
    The Punjabi word "bandah" (and this is how it is written in Shahmukhi) has its origins in Persian. It comes from the verb "bastan" (bastah = bandhaa hu'aa) and then present root of the verb is "band" (a tie, a knot) abd by extension "badah" (a tied individual).

    asiiN xudaa de bande (h)aaN....Here bandah is the exact equivalent of the Arabic 3abd (3abdullaah...servant of God/devdaas)

    Mostly, the word is used in this sense in Punjabi and Urdu....as well as human of course in the former. bandah in Punjabi is also used for the pronounce "one". ethe bandah ke kare?
     

    fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    Turner’s entry is perhaps a bit laconic. Iranian band- is a cognate with Skt. bandha- (as is also English ‘bind’ etc.). The Indian forms with –d- (as opposed to those with a descendant of ‑dh‑; e.g. Hindi bã̄dh ʻ dam ʼ) are loanwords from Iranian (already in Prakrit and post-classical Sanskrit). Persian bandaka- > bandag > banda is in the first instance ‘bondsman, slave’, but becomes a polite/depreciatory term for ‘human being’, or a substitute for the first person singular pronoun.
     

    Dib

    Senior Member
    Bengali (India)
    The Indian forms with –d- (as opposed to those with a descendant of ‑dh‑; e.g. Hindi bã̄dh ʻ dam ʼ) are loanwords from Iranian (already in Prakrit and post-classical Sanskrit).

    That's interesting. Sanskrit "bandin-" (and hence the Bengali loanword "bondi") had always confused me in terms of etymology.

    Persian bandaka- > bandag > banda is in the first instance ‘bondsman, slave’, but becomes a polite/depreciatory term for ‘human being’, or a substitute for the first person singular pronoun.

    Yeah, Achaemenid inscriptions are full of "bandaka"-s, who the emperors sent to different parts of the empire at the head of an army to quell rebellions, etc. I guess, in this usage "bandaka-" is more like a "faithful servant/officer", isn't it? The primary meaning, of course, could have been "bondsman", because of the link to the root band- (to bind).
     

    mundiya

    Senior Member
    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    Turner’s entry is perhaps a bit laconic. Iranian band- is a cognate with Skt. bandha- (as is also English ‘bind’ etc.). The Indian forms with –d- (as opposed to those with a descendant of ‑dh‑; e.g. Hindi bã̄dh ʻ dam ʼ) are loanwords from Iranian (already in Prakrit and post-classical Sanskrit). Persian bandaka- > bandag > banda is in the first instance ‘bondsman, slave’, but becomes a polite/depreciatory term for ‘human being’, or a substitute for the first person singular pronoun.

    Do you think it's a plausible assumption that the Punjabi word "bandā" was loaned from both Middle Persian (via Sanskrit and Prakrit) and Modern Persian? Also, for clarification, does the Persian "banda" have all three usages (slave, human being, substitute for first person singular pronoun), or do you feel the latter two are Punjabi innovations?
     
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    fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    Do you think it's a plausible assumption that the Punjabi word "bandā" was loaned from both Middle Persian

    ....Old Persian....

    (via Sanskrit and Prakrit) and Modern Persian?

    Yes, in the same way that English has both "hostel" from Old French and "hotel" from Modern French.

    Also, for clarification, does the Persian "banda" have all three usages (slave, human being, substitute for first person singular pronoun), or do you feel the latter two are Punjabi innovations?

    All three meanings occur in New Persian.
     
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