Punjabi: Gurmukhi spelling of kihnuuN

In Standard Indian Punjabi as far as I've understood uh (oh), ih (eh/aih) and kii/kaun are declined as is(-nuuN), us(-nuuN) and kis(-nuuN) in the oblique case.

However, in the vernacular language in both India and Pakistan there are also common variants such as ihnuuN/aihnuuN/aisnuuN, ohnuuN/osnuuN and kihnuuN. I tried to transcribe the last form in Gurmukhi, and I realised this is unreadable as uu goes in the same place as the hn ligature: ਕਿਨ੍ਹੂੰ. In Shamukhi there's no such complication: کہنوں. Does Gurmukhi orthography have any sort of common convention when transcribing these vernacular forms? Is this a problem with the encoding on computers or is the combination "hnuuN" impossible in handwriting as well?

Or am I imagining things and it's actually kinuuN without the rising tone?:confused:
 
  • Dib

    Senior Member
    Bengali (India)
    I am not well-acquainted with Gurmukhi. But from what I have seen, it does not use many consonant ligatures. I'd strongly suspect that it would be spelt as if it were "kihanuuN". Wait for more experienced people, though.
     
    Sure @Dib, it's ਕਿਹਨੂੰ/ਕਿਸਨੂੰ.

    Thanks!

    Again, sure thing. The 'h' is for the rising tone, nothing else. ਨ੍ਹ to the contrary is /nh/.

    Now I'm confused again. :p As far as I've understood ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ (ihnaaN) and ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ (uhnaaN) also are pronounced with a rising tone and no aspiration, even though of course orthographically the h comes after the n (ਨ + ਹ > ਨ੍ਹ), and they are also etymologically derived from ih and uh... I'm not sure I've ever heard anything like /nh/ in Punjabi (unless you're analysing tone as underlying aspiration, which would mean something like /ɪnhã:/ > [ɪ˦nã:]).

    EDIT: Fixed IPA
     
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    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    You've raised the stacks! I don't really know for certain, perhaps you can write it like this ਇੰਹਨਾਂ ĕ́nnaaN). The last part -naaN - is on level tone, no high, it is the initial syllable which is rising.
    In Gurmukhi, the majority of the symbols pointing to aspiration (as "bha" etc or "h") change the tone and become voiceless and de-aspirated, if they ever used to be.
     
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    You've raised the stacks! I don't really know for certain, perhaps you can write it like this ਇੰਹਨਾਂ ě́nnaaN).

    Hm, ਇੰਹਨਾਂ does exist but ਇੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ gives far more ghits... in any case I guess this orthographic quirk may be limited to these two words, as say ਉਹਨੇ seems far more common than ਉਨ੍ਹੇ.

    The last part -naaN - is on level tone, no high, it is the initial syllable which is rising.

    Oh yeah, sorry, I put the tone mark in the wrong place, thanks. :) I also put in the wrong vowel so I've edited my post with the correct IPA.
     
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