Punjabi/Urdu: ماں

iskander e azam

Senior Member
English

شرکا ئے محفل!
ان جملوں پر غور کیجیے جو منٹو صاحب کی کہانی ’ٹھنڈا گوشت‘ سے ہیں:
کلونت کور چلائی۔’’ایشر سیاں۔‘‘ لیکن فوراً ہی آواز بھینچ لی اور پلنگ پر سے اٹھ کر اس کی جانب جاتے ہوئے بولی۔’’کہاں رہے تم اتنے دن؟‘‘
‘‘ایشر سنگھ نے خشک ہونٹوں پر زبان پھیری۔’’مجھے معلوم نہیں۔‘‘
کلونت کور بھنا گئی۔’’یہ بھی کوئی ماں یا جواب ہے؟‘‘
ارشد ملک کی "منٹو کے بہترین 13 افسانے"، ۲۰۱۶، ص ۸۷، س ۱۱۔۱۴

میرے سوال یہ ہیں کہ ماں کے کیا معنی ہے اور اس لفظ کی جنس کیا ہوگی؟ اس سے علاوا میں یہ جاننا چاہتا ہوں کہ یہ لفظ اس شاہکار میں آیا ہے لیکن یہ لفظ روزمرہ اردو یا تعلیمی اردو میں آتا ہے یا نہیں؟
آپ کی مدد کے لیے شکریہ۔
اسکندر
 
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  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    یہ بھی کوئی مویا جواب ہے۔

    یعنی

    مویا، یہ بھی کوئی جواب ہے۔

    مویا = موا where there is a hamzah above the vaa'o ie mu'aa.

    See page 1084 Platts. Past participle of the verb "muunaa".
     
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    iskander e azam

    Senior Member
    English
    یہ بھی کوئی مویا جواب ہے۔

    یعنی

    مویا، یہ بھی کوئی جواب ہے۔

    مویا = موا where there is a hamzah above the vaa'o ie mu'aa.

    See page 1084 Platts. Past participle of the verb "muunaa".
    شکریہ جناب۔
     

    iskander e azam

    Senior Member
    English
    میرے خیال میں میرا جواب بالکل واضح ہے۔

    مؤا
    قریشپور صاحب!
    آپ کا جواب مجھے بھی ٹھیک درست لگا۔
    ’’یہ بھی کوئی ماں یا جواب ہے؟‘‘ کا انگریزی ترجمہ ہے کہ ? is this any kind of cursed answer
    لیکن صاحب یہ بتائے کہ متن میں ’ماں یا’ لکھا ہے یہ ٹائی پو ہے یا کوئی متبادل املا؟
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Thank you Qureshpor SaaHib, this solution didn't even cross my mind when the question popped up and I like it and it's valid however there's yet another option I've got.

    I thought it ought to be looked up really and consequently I started checking, so far I've checked only the three editions from Delhi I found on a certain website, so I'm reluctant to share my idea yet. FYI, two of them have ماں یا, and in the last one this word/s is missing completely ie. the sentence reads: ’’یہ بھی کوئی جواب ہے؟‘‘

    Also, by the way, although it's only a couple of days I even used "mu'aa" here,
    But the meaning can be also very literal, like there's a saying: mu'ii kyoN? saaNs nah aa'ii. :)
    still I had no faintest idea of its connection to the verb "muunaa", because I was unaware of its existence.
    See page 1084 Platts. Past participle of the verb "muunaa".
    It must be just only me and there's nothing special about it, perhaps it passed unnoticed.
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you Qureshpor SaaHib, this solution didn't even cross my mind when the question popped up and I like it and it's valid however there's yet another option I've got.

    I thought it ought to be looked up really and consequently I started checking, so far I've checked only the three editions from Delhi I found on a certain website, so I'm reluctant to share my idea yet. FYI, two of them have ماں یا, and in the last one this word/s is missing completely ie. the sentence reads: ’’یہ بھی کوئی جواب ہے؟‘‘

    Also, by the way, although it's only a couple of days I even used "mu'aa" here,

    still I had no faintest idea of its connection to the verb "muunaa", because I was unaware of its existence.

    It must be just only me and there's nothing special about it, perhaps it passed unnoticed.
    Salaam marrish SaaHib.

    On the net, in one of the editions I found what I have written, ie مویا which is Punjabi for mu'aa. She is referring to the male counterpart as moyaa and not to the javaab. I think it makes perfect sense.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    wassalaam Qureshpor SaaHib

    I have found 'moyaa' a perfectly fitting solution since you shared it. I also agree to a great extent that she qualifies the answer by "mooyaa", not the other character and now it appears that even publishers had solved this issue the way you proposed in this thread. لیکن اس جانب آپ ہی کی طرح پنجابی زبان کے نازیبا الفاظ کی طرف جا کر بھی لفظ ماں پر مبنی ایک گالی کا گمان ہوا تھا۔
     
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    iskander e azam

    Senior Member
    English
    She is referring to the male counterpart as moyaa and not to the javaab. I think it makes perfect sense.

    قریشپقر صاحب،
    اگر جو کچھ آپ لکھتے ہیں درست ہے تو میرے لیے آپ ببا سکتے ہیں کہ یہاں ’کوئی‘ کیا کام کرتی ہے؟میری سمجھ میں ’کوئی‘ غلط جگہ میں ہے۔ یا ’مویا‘ غلط جگہ میں ہے۔
    بہت شکریہ۔
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    wassalaam Qureshpor SaaHib

    I have found 'moyaa' a perfectly fitting solution since you shared it. I also agree to a great extent that she qualifies the answer by "mooyaa", not the other character and now it appears that even publishers had solved this issue the way you proposed in this thread. لیکن اس جانب آپ ہی کی طرح پنجابی زبان کے نازیبا الفاظ کی طرف جا کر بھی لفظ ماں پر مبنی ایک گالی کا گمان ہوا تھا۔
    marrish SaaHib if I have understood your post correctly, what you are saying is that Manto had the following sentence in mind for the female character to utter but for the sake of decency the word was left incomplete for the reader to fill in the missing spaces, so to speak.

    yih bhii ko'ii maaN-y_haavaa javaab hai?

    What kind of mother-fxxxxx/fxxxxxx reply is this?

    Correct?
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Yes, you have understood correctly what I was trying to convey. I remember it was even discussed sometime before that there are parallel editions/versions of Manto's output in which changes were imposed by the contemporary authorities, made by editors or introduced by the writer himself. So I had this scenario in mind that there might be a variety on this issue exactly because of profanity and therefore all versions might be equally valid. Still if we suppose the adjective (-ing) is used for the answer, not for the male character (-er), then it makes sense even without vaa.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Yes, you have understood correctly what I was trying to convey. I remember it was even discussed sometime before that there are parallel editions/versions of Manto's output in which changes were imposed by the contemporary authorities, made by editors or introduced by the writer himself. So I had this scenario in mind that there might be a variety on this issue exactly because of profanity and therefore all versions might be equally valid. Still if we suppose the adjective (-ing) is used for the answer, not for the male character (-er), then it makes sense even without vaa.
    I would say that the only valid version is what the author wrote originally, before any censorship.

    For "maaN-y_haavaa javaab" I believe both the -ing and -er words are equally correct.
     
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