Punjabi, Urdu?: guTkaa and guTkNRaa

MonsieurGonzalito

Senior Member
Castellano de Argentina
Friends,

What are the "guTKuNs" in the following verse (also from the song "Alif Allah")

dam guTkuN, dam guTkuN ... kare saaiiN te kalmaa nabii daa paRhe saaiiN ...

In the captions, it is very freely translated as (with every breath, like a dove call ..., say the kalimah of the Prophet ..., etc)

I am not convinced. guTkNRaa is "to coo like a dove" (in Urdu, maybe also "to whisper"). guTkaa means literally dozens of things: a book of prayers; a wedge, a draftsman ...
Perhaps the idea is: a breath then a gulp of silence, a breath then a gulp of silence?

Please orient me, I have no idea.
 
  • marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    What are the "guTKuNs" in the following verse (also from the song "Alif Allah")

    dam guTkuN, dam guTkuN ... kare saaiiN te kalmaa nabii daa paRhe saaiiN ...

    In the captions, it is very freely translated as (with every breath, like a dove call ..., say the kalimah of the Prophet ..., etc)

    I am not convinced. guTkNRaa is "to coo like a dove"
    ... and guTkuuN is the onomatopoeic noun, 'a coo'.
    guTkaa is unrelated.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    You're welcome. I'd like to hear about your view on the discussed translation.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    dam guTkuN, dam guTkuN ... kare saaiiN te
    kalmaa nabii daa paRhe saaiiN ...
    For a better grasp, let's divide the text into verses.

    دم گُٹکُوں، دم گُٹکُوں کرے سائیں
    اَتے کلمہ نبیؐ دا پڑھے سائیں

    dam guTkuuN, dam guTkuuN kare saa'iiN
    atē kalama nabiiؐ daa páRe saa'iiN


    You have understood the second verse quite well, but its meaning is connected to the first one, which is the topic of this thread.

    That meaning is a continuation of the verse:

    دم گٹکُوں، دم گٹکُوں، دم گٹکُوں، دم گٹکُوں

    I ought to be excused in favour of native English speakers to express it by onomatopoeic words. دم also needs to be understood correctly as 'breath' in the sense of 'inhalation/inspiration' in their own multiple meanings.

    ...et ceterum censeo nomen cantoris memorandum esse.
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    [inhalation] "coo" [inhalation] "coo" ?

    I never know how to translate that word, neither in this song, nor in general.

    In this song, the idea is that they are elevating psalmodies to God in a way similar to the cooing of doves.

    More generally, I understand that "dam" would be the pause to breathe done by a person in some sort of singing trance. Like in "Dama dam mast Kalandar", or "Malang, malang, dam, dam, malang, malang".

    In those cases, I was told, "dam" is some sort of a "filler" to give a certain beat or rhythm to the lyrics, but without a clear meaning.

    ...et ceterum censeo nomen cantoris memorandum esse.
    I looked it up, عارِف means "a mystic", especially a Sufi one. OK, Sufis are prone to fall in trance singing, I guess.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    The idea is of an inhalation (dam) and exhalation (guTkuuN), like the sound doves make is twofold.
    Each word brings its own imagery, there is no definite translation I suppose.

    The sense I see is that first the act of breathing and heart contractions is introduced, by reference to repetitive and continuous cooing of pigeons.

    All 'trance' related meanings can apply here as well.

    Then this whole sequence and character of acts is made into one verb:

    dam guTkuuN kare.

    She breathes out the Prophet's kalimah.

    ('memorandum' has proven to be my poor attempt at 'acknowledged' or 'mentioned'! but I guess there's advantage to your take!)
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Happy to see you're able to follow my train of thought with just some hints :)

    I've thought of elaborating a bit more along this line:
    ...first the act of breathing and heart contractions is introduced, by reference to repetitive and continuous cooing of pigeons.
    which equals to being alive, (a pre-condition to i.a. participate in the Forum's activities) - or/and/ the totality of one's lifespan; or/and/ the continuity or/... repetitive aspect of it.

    زندگی انساں کی اک دم کے سوا کچھ بھی نہيں (اقبال)۔
    zindagii insaaN kii ik dam ke siwaa kuchh bhii nahiiN (Iqbal)
     
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