Punjabi, Urdu? Hindi? : پھٹا , پھٹن phiTaa, phiTan

Alfaaz

Senior Member
English
Background: seems to be used often to mean "rich, proud, arrogant"....however the Urdu dictionary meanings listed here don't make sense: پھٹن and پھٹا

Context: dialogue: "unno pase den di ki loR sigi? pehle ie phitaa peyaa waa!"

Questions: Is it that the person is "torn" with riches....? What does this word mean? Hear phiTkaar in Urdu often, but don't hear the others much....
 
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Background: seems to be used often to mean "rich, proud, arrogant"....however the Urdu dictionary meanings listed here don't make sense: پھٹن and پھٹا

    Context: dialogue: "unno pase den di ki loR sigi? pehle ie phitaa peyaa waa!"

    Questions: Is it that the person is "torn" with riches....? What does this word mean? Hear phiTkaar in Urdu often, but don't hear the others much....

    The word you are (mis)hearing is, I believe, "phiTTeaa". I don't know quite how best to translate this. Let's say a person is well off and whilst eating his food, he leaves most of it uneaten and consequently it is of no use for anyone else. One could say, "e baRaa phiTTeyaa e" (He is very proud and ungrateful?).

    It is also used in another meaning. One who is in his prime of health and it shows in his skin colour, his every move etc etc. "e phiTTeyaa e". He is in great shape! For females the word is "phiTTii" "falaaNRii phiTTii e". So and so thinks far too much of her self.
     
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    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    panjabigator said:
    Is this where we get "phiṭṭe mūNh" from?
    I wonder which phrase you are referring to here panjabigator SaaHib...
    I've heard this as fiTTe muNh, as an insult. (It might be one of the East / West differences, like anDa phainTnaa vs fainTnaa.)
    One the other hand, one does hear things like "aenna haga wa, aena haga wa fer wi aajande ne roz roz apNRe phitte (ho'ae) munh le ke hor zyaada daphan nu!"
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Is this where we get "phiṭṭe mūNh" from?

    Good question! We tend to use "ph" for the word in question for this thread and "f" for your "fiTe muNh" (one T) as Alfaaz SaaHib has indicated. However, my Punjabi dictionary gives "ph" for your word.

    To answer your question, I don't know for certain but I don't think the words are related.
     

    bakshink

    Senior Member
    punjabi
    That's interesting Punjabigator 'phitte muNh' or 'dur phitte muNh' where from this has come? It doesn't seem to have any connection with 'phittae hoye loki' being discussed here.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    That's interesting Punjabigator 'phitte muNh' or 'dur phitte muNh' where from this has come? It doesn't seem to have any connection with 'phittae hoye loki' being discussed here.

    I would say that "phiTe muuNh/fiTe muuNh" is connected with this..

    H پهٿ फिटphiṭ [S. स्फिट्, स्फुट्ट्], s.m. Curse, malediction;—intj. Fie! fie upon it! out upon you! a fig for it! a curse on it!:—phiṭ-phiṭ, intj.=phiṭ;—phiṭ-phiṭ karnā, v.t. To cry fie or shame on; to rail at, to sneer at, treat with contempt:—phiṭ-kār, s.m. Removing (a thing or person) to a distance, driving away; curse, &c.=phiṭ;—phiṭ-kār barasnā, v.n. Curses to be showered down (on), to be accursed:—phiṭ-kārnā, v.t. To cry fie or shame on, to turn from with contempt; to turn away with disdain; to reject; to drive away; to rail at, revile; to curse.

    phiTe muuNh ..May your mouth (which is uttering this) be cursed! (?)
     

    bakshink

    Senior Member
    punjabi
    Thanks Qureshpor. Seems a very plausible reasoning and an excellent explanation. So our poor, humble, desi phite muNh is more close to angrezi 'fie' :)
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Is this where we get "phiṭṭe mūNh" from?
    It has been already suggested that there is single T in this word and I can subscribe to this, but as we can see in bakshink's post, he also uses a double T! Is it a matter of a transcription convention or is this word pronounced with a gemination as well?

    Secondly, you have put a dash above 'u' in the second word; does it mean that the 'u' is a long vowel, 'uu'?
     

    panjabigator

    Senior Member
    Am. English
    I'm really quite the careless speller. Despite my penchant for diacritics when transliterating, I think I'm trigger happy and just insert bars liberally. I'm trying to imagine the imprecation right now and I don't believe I've heard it with a long "u," though to be honest, my family is only vile with me in English and Hindi, and very rarely Punjabi.

    As for the gemination, I'm really unsure. Punjabi usually geminates more than Urdu, and I'm tempted to coin an imprecise rule: the tonic syllable is geminated. Now, maybe this is a topic for another thread so hurl your tomatoes at me in another room, please :)
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I'm really quite the careless speller. Despite my penchant for diacritics when transliterating, I think I'm trigger happy and just insert bars liberally. I'm trying to imagine the imprecation right now and I don't believe I've heard it with a long "u," though to be honest, my family is only vile with me in English and Hindi, and very rarely Punjabi.

    As for the gemination, I'm really unsure. Punjabi usually geminates more than Urdu, and I'm tempted to coin an imprecise rule: the tonic syllable is geminated. Now, maybe this is a topic for another thread so hurl your tomatoes at me in another room, please :)
    Thanks for these words, everything is clear now! I just thought it was pronounced in a way I wasn't familar with!
    I'd leave your theory alone at this point and I hope there is no need of hurling tomatoes! By the way, another room is closed!:(
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thanks Qureshpor. Seems a very plausible reasoning and an excellent explanation. So our poor, humble, desi phite muNh is more close to angrezi 'fie' :)

    Thank you.

    kiklii kaliir dii
    pag mere viir dii
    dopaTTaa mere p_haaii daa
    phiTe muuNh javaa'ii daa!
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    It has been already suggested that there is single T in this word and I can subscribe to this, but as we can see in bakshink's post, he also uses a double T! Is it a matter of a transcription convention or is this word pronounced with a gemination as well?

    Secondly, you have put a dash above 'u' in the second word; does it mean that the 'u' is a long vowel, 'uu'?
    I believe both single and double T are in use.

    jaaToN ko taiN piiTh dikhaa'ii, laaj nah aa'ii daaRhii kii
    ab to pahan tuu DaNDiyaa saarii, thukkii daaRii phiTTe muNh

    Ja'far Zatali (Ja3far ZaTallii) 1658-1713
     
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