Punjabi-Urdu: masculine and feminine forms of words

Alfaaz

Senior Member
English
Background: In this thread, a similar question was asked for Urdu and Hindi, which raised interest about Punjabi. A few threads/posts in the past have suggested that karnii and honii are perhaps due to Punjabi influence on Urdu. Here are some Punjabi sentences (please excuse mistakes in Punjabi spelling):

Punjabi:
اچھی غذا کھاڑاں چاہیدی اے - achhi ghizaa/ghazaa khaaNRaa chaiidii ae
تینو معافی منگڑاں پویگی - tennu mua'fi mangNRaa pawegii
میں طبیب نل ملاقات کرنا سی / سگی - meiN tabeeb nal mulaqaat karnaa si/sigi
تیری تقریر تے اج نہیں ہوڑاں سی/ سگی - teri taqreer te aj nahi hoNRaa si/sigi
Corresponding Urdu setences/translations:
اچھی غذا کھانا چاہیے - achhi ghizaa khaanaa chahiye
تمہیں معافی مانگنا پڑیگی - tumheiN mua'afi maangnaa paRegii
مجھے طبیب سے ملاقات کرنا تھی - mujhe tabeeb se mulaaqaat karnaa thi
تمہاری تقریرتو آج نہیں ہونا تھی - tumhaari taqreer to aaj naheeN honaa thi

Questions:

  • What are the rules in Punjabi on gender of karnaa, honaa, and other words like khaana, maangnaa...?
  • Which of the sentences above would be considered correct in Punjabi?
  • Is this/could this be a case of Urdu's influence on Panjabi...?
    • Are these just differences in dialects or even Western/Eastern forms...?
 
  • marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu

    Punjabi:
    اچھی غذا کھاڑاں چاہیدی اے - achhi ghizaa/ghazaa khaaNRaa chaiidii ae
    تینو معافی منگڑاں پویگی - tennu mua'fi mangNRaa pawegii
    میں طبیب نل ملاقات کرنا سی / سگی - meiN tabeeb nal mulaqaat karnaa si/sigi
    تیری تقریر تے اج نہیں ہوڑاں سی/ سگی - teri taqreer te aj nahi hoNRaa si/sigi
    Corresponding Urdu setences/translations:
    اچھی غذا کھانا چاہیے - achhi ghizaa khaanaa chahiye
    تمہیں معافی مانگنا پڑیگی - tumheiN mua'afi maangnaa paRegii
    مجھے طبیب سے ملاقات کرنا تھی - mujhe tabeeb se mulaaqaat karnaa thi
    تمہاری تقریرتو آج نہیں ہونا تھی - tumhaari taqreer to aaj naheeN honaa thi

    Questions:

    • What are the rules in Punjabi on gender of karnaa, honaa, and other words like khaana, maangnaa...?
    • Which of the sentences above would be considered correct in Punjabi?
    • Is this/could this be a case of Urdu's influence on Panjabi...?
      • Are these just differences in dialects or even Western/Eastern forms...?
    I'm sorry to say that none sounds correct.
    As to the first question, I'm afraid I can't help because I don't understand the question fully; a grammar book or a language course should provide an answer to your queries.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Background: In this thread, a similar question was asked for Urdu and Hindi, which raised interest about Punjabi. A few threads/posts in the past have suggested that karnii and honii are perhaps due to Punjabi influence on Urdu. Here are some Punjabi sentences (please excuse mistakes in Punjabi spelling):

    Punjabi:
    اچھی غذا کھاڑاں چاہیدی اے - achhi ghizaa/ghazaa khaaNRaa chaiidii ae
    تینو معافی منگڑاں پویگی - tennu mua'fi mangNRaa pawegii
    میں طبیب نل ملاقات کرنا سی / سگی - meiN tabeeb nal mulaqaat karnaa si/sigi
    تیری تقریر تے اج نہیں ہوڑاں سی/ سگی - teri taqreer te aj nahi hoNRaa si/sigi
    Corresponding Urdu setences/translations:
    اچھی غذا کھانا چاہیے - achhi ghizaa khaanaa chahiye
    تمہیں معافی مانگنا پڑیگی - tumheiN mua'afi maangnaa paRegii
    مجھے طبیب سے ملاقات کرنا تھی - mujhe tabeeb se mulaaqaat karnaa thi
    تمہاری تقریرتو آج نہیں ہونا تھی - tumhaari taqreer to aaj naheeN honaa thi

    Questions:

    • What are the rules in Punjabi on gender of karnaa, honaa, and other words like khaana, maangnaa...?
    • Which of the sentences above would be considered correct in Punjabi?
    • Is this/could this be a case of Urdu's influence on Panjabi...?
      • Are these just differences in dialects or even Western/Eastern forms...?

    And they remain no more than conjectures! See thread below (especially post 65).

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1398107&highlight=baat+karnii+mujhe

    In addition, you started the following thread, which could be useful in answeing your question/s.

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2327406&highlight=karnii

    Does any Punjabi speaker use these kinds of sentences? Urdu sentences with verb ebding in "-ii" will be equally correct also. This is as per the the Delhi school. In fact a number of Lakhnavi poets (e.g Daya Shankar Naseem) have also employed the "-ii" construction in their poetry.
     
    Last edited:

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    QURESHPOR said:
    And they remain no more than conjectures! See thread below (especially post 65).
    Hence the use of "perhaps" in the OP; hope this won't be seen as another "attack" (explanation below)...
    QURESHPOR said:
    In addition, you started the following thread, which could be useful in answeing your question/s.
    I linked to that thread in the OP and was thinking that was for Urdu/Hindi.....which is why I created this for Punjabi.
    QURESHPOR said:
    Does any Punjabi speaker use these kinds of sentences?
    If you are asking about the Punjabi sentences, then Yes! I heard sentences like the ones quoted below in media and even from a few "native speakers", which sparked interest to create this thread/ask this question! Again I said that this could be a matter of different dialects, etc.
    achhi ghizaa/ghazaa khaaNRaa chaiidii ae
    tennu mua'fi mangNRaa pawegii
    QURESHPOR said:
    Urdu sentences with verb ebding in "-ii" will be equally correct also. This is as per the the Delhi school. In fact a number of Lakhnavi poets (e.g Daya Shankar Naseem) have also employed the "-ii" construction in their poetry.
    In this thread, I was only inquiring about what would be correct in Punjabi (not Urdu, which was only presented for comparison).
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Hence the use of "perhaps" in the OP; hope this won't be seen as another "attack" (explanation below)...

    I linked to that thread in the OP and was thinking that was for Urdu/Hindi.....which is why I created this for Punjabi.

    If you are asking about the Punjabi sentences, then Yes! I heard sentences like the ones quoted below in media and even from a few "native speakers", which sparked interest to create this thread/ask this question! Again I said that this could be a matter of different dialects, etc.


    In this thread, I was only inquiring about what would be correct in Punjabi (not Urdu, which was only presented for comparison).


    Alfaaz SaaHib, thank you for your explanations. When examples from Urdu literature from both the Delhi and Lucknow schools have been provided, I can not see why there is still a need for "perhaps". What other evidence is required? No, I don't see your questions as "attack" at all. I can differentiate an attach from a genuine enquiry.

    Regarding the "Punjabi" sentences, all I can say is that this kind of Punjabi must be spoken in a very remote part of Mars!
     
    Last edited:

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    Thanks for the clarification!
    Regarding the "Punjabi" sentences, all I can say is that this kind of Punjabi must be spoken in a very remote part of Mars!
    مبارک ہو! آپکو زمین پر رہتے ہوئے ہی خالائی مخلوق سے "مریخی زبان" پڑھنے کو مل گئی :) (and not only once, but twice..."میں نو اتھے جانا سی ")
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thanks for the clarification!

    مبارک ہو! آپکو زمین پر رہتے ہوئے ہی خالائی مخلوق سے "مریخی زبان" پڑھنے کو مل گئی :) (and not only once, but twice..."میں نو اتھے جانا سی ")

    mubaarak-baad kaa shukriyah janaab. lekin lagtaa hai kih aap panjaabii likhte likhte Urdu likhnaa bhii bhuul ga'e haiN!
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    QURESHPOR said:
    mubaarak-baad kaa shukriyah janaab. lekin lagtaa hai kih aap panjaabii likhte likhte Urdu likhnaa bhii bhuul ga'e haiN!
    ab kyaa ghalati hoga'ii humse...?
    marrish said:
    Could you elaborate?
    Remember we (Qureshpor SaaHib, you, and I) had an off-topic discussion on this in one of the Urdu threads....can't remember which one it was.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Remember we (Qureshpor SaaHib, you, and I) had an off-topic discussion on this in one of the Urdu threads....can't remember which one it was.
    Oh yes, I remember now! I see, I hadn't noticed the quotation marks! Now I understand the whole sentence - very funny, indeed!:)
     
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