Québec lifestyle...

Discussion in 'Cultural Discussions' started by robbie_SWE, May 19, 2006.

  1. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    There is a big difference between Western Canada and French-speaking Canada. Can you please give me your opinion on this matter and/or examples where the "Québec" lifestyle is different from the rest of Canada?!

    Thanks in advance!

  2. Papalote Senior Member

    Quebec, Canada
    Spanish, English, French
    Hi, Robbie

    It´s a very long answer that you would need, and I don´t have the time right now. Also, I´m a new Canadian, so it might not my answer might not have the same validity as a <de souche> Quebecker, like my husband.

    If by lifestyle you mean, everyday life, working, studying, shopping, watching t.v., from where I stand, language would be the main, perhaps the only difference.Although English still is the international language for business, most of everyday life here is conducted in French (exception of the West Island, Westmount and some south shore areas). I have noticed also that Quebec families are bigger (more members, mainly because first and second cousins are considered as close family). My experience has been that whether they are Anglican or Catholic, they seem to me to be equally devout. Here in the Greater Montreal area, we have English and French t.v. channels, as well as access to American t.v. channels. I believe we shop in the same stores as Western Canada, Costco, Loblaws (no apostrophe in Quebec, forbidden by law) Walmarts, Zellers, The Bay/La Baie. We have the same movies, although until there is a French version the movies cannot be shown in Quebec.

    There are a lot of mnior irritants that the separatist government imposed on us in order to make us feel we are different, a separate nation from Canada, but right now the only one I can thin if is that our margerine is paler than butter. This was done to protect the dairy industry in Quebec :confused: ;) .

    I´ll try to get back to you during the weekend.

    I´m sure you´ll get more contributions.

    Have a great weekend!

  3. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    Thank you for your reply. It's very interesting!

    Hope to hear from you again!

  4. Papalote Senior Member

    Quebec, Canada
    Spanish, English, French
    Hi, Robbie

    I´ve been thinking about what I know for certain are differences between Quebec and the rest of Canada, not only the West. In my opinion, every Province is very different from the others and each is very proud of being native of their Province.

    I believe that one of the main differences between Quebec and Westen Canada is that, in the rest of Canada, immigrants have the right to send their kids to whatever school they want (within their district) whereas in Quebec immigrants can only send their children to French schools, even if they want to pay for private schooling, they don´t have the right to send them to English schools. I guess we have less rights in Quebec than in the rest of Canada. Also, signs outside stores, in highways and publicity of any kind, have a special ruling. In order not to corrupt the French language and culture, the usage of English is only allowed if it is half the size of the French lettering and written underneath. This only applies to Engish. The Chinese community was allowed to keep their signs in Chinese because, as the Office québécois de la langue française found out, Chinese does not pose a threat to the French language.

    Actually, the ruling is that if your mother did not attend primary school in English in the Province of Quebec, then you do not have the right to go to an English primary school. This has created a problem for a lot of French Quebeckers who are finding that English Quebeckers are now learning French very early in their schooling, so they are becoming bilingual; new Canadians are being schooled in French but their parents are forcing them to learn English, and they speak a third, sometimes a fourth language at school. So these children are fluently trilingual by the time they go to university. And for job and salary purposes, there is a great advantage to being fluently bilingual in both official languages, plus having a third language. A lot of French Quebeckes are now demanding that English be taught at a much younger age.

    When I was out West, I found that many signs were bilingual, even polyglot, but it was mainly English, Japanese, Korean and one other non-French language. Except for Federal government offices, where employees supposedly are bilingual.

    Gotta go, or I`ll miss my train!!!see you next time.

  5. vince Senior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    Don't forget about the Maritime provinces (where almost 3 million people live) This area is east of the province of Quebec. The provinces there are Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland&Labrador, and Prince Edward Island. Newfoundlanders have a slightly different culture, plus their "Newfie" accent is different from the rest of English Canada's accent, having only joined Canada in 1949. New Brunswick is Canada's only bilingual province, there are many French-speakers there, but they speak slightly differently than Quebeckers (Acadian French). Eastern Canada is generally poorer than the rest of Canada.

    Important note: Canada is a bilingual country only in name. Outside of Quebec and parts of New Brunswick, if you try to speak French, people will look at you funny and they will have no idea what you are saying. The quality of French-as-second-language education, although mandatory, is appallingly bad (think about the French equivalent of Japanese "Engrish"). In the four years since I visited France, I have only had to use French once in Toronto -- talking with tourists from France! That's why my French is getting worse and worse from disuse. Yet the fact that all commercial products and many road signs are written in both languages and that all federal and provincial governments offer bilingual services tends to fool the casual tourist into thinking we are bilingual. But I can safely say that there is absolutely no use for French in Toronto. Spanish, Panjabi, and Mandarin are far more widely understood.
  6. Brioche

    Brioche Senior Member

    Australia English
    I read on an anti-parti quebecois website the claim that Federal Bilingualism in employment is a one-way street.

    The claim was that an applicant had to demonstrate competence in French, but that there was no requirement for francophones to demonstrate competence in English.
  7. luis masci

    luis masci Banned

    I knew about controversial relationship between Quebec and the rest of Canada when the communication through the world began to be fluent (thanks internet, satelital t.v.). Before I thought Canada was a country where both languages went on together all over the country.
    Shy of me.:eek:
    But as a matter of fact I bet, still today, most ordinary people from my country don’t know where Quebec is, even I’d say they couldn’t tell even what country it’s placed. Here we hear a lot about USA but so little about Canada.

    Any correction will be welcome because I’m only Spanish speaker
  8. vince Senior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    Here's a rough translation:

    ** Not sure what you mean by "to be fluent"

    I think that geographic knowledge is fairly limited throughout the world. Most people usually only know about their own country and perhaps the ones that neighbor it, or places that they've visited. I think you are leaps and bounds above the majority people in the world because you are actually taking interest in the affairs of countries that aren't connected to your own.
  9. Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Hauts-de-Seine, France
    English (Ireland)
    Hi, I know I'm resurrecting an old thread here but I'm eager to get Quebecker's opinions. I've been living in Westmount for a few months now, and I've come to understand why the Québécois take such a strong line in protecting their language. The attitude of many Anglophones often beggars belief: arrogant, spiteful and throughly resistant to learning French. Walking along Sherbrooke Street West into Rue Sainte Catherine I often hear no French at all.....

    To be honest, if it weren't for the language laws, I'm convinced a large part of Montréal would be unlingual English at this point. Furthermore, from what I've seen, it's nearly always a one-way street, francophones are chided if they can't speak English (Louise Harel!) but a large number of English-speakers, and especially older ones, could care less about mastering French. Some of the behaviour I've seen has annoyed me to the point that I now try and use French wherever possible in Anglo areas, and if they can't understand, eh bien tant pis. :D :mad:
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2011
  10. Askalon Senior Member

    English (US)
    Well, I'm far from the best person to be commenting on this and I don't like getting myself mixed up in the politics of languages in Montreal, so I guess just take what I say with a grain of salt. While I think there's some truth to what you're saying, I think you're painting a very, very black and white picture.

    Really, from what I notice, is that there's just increasing apathy towards language use (or maybe that's not the best word--I mean that people are just increasingly relaxed about the situation). I don't see the hatred towards English (or hatred towards French) that I'd heard about prior to coming here. There just seems to be an increasing trend towards bilingualism on both sides, whether English is your first language or French, and there seem to be a very large number of people that are balanced bilinguals.

    I'm not sure what point you're making about hearing no French on Sherbrooke or Ste-Catherine--in any given couple minutes walking down those streets, yes, it's possible you might not hear any French. But on a consistent basis you don't overhear any French at all while walking down them? I can't imagine how that's possible. Montreal has plenty of tourists too, so keep in mind that of course Anglophone tourists will be speaking English. And as far as native Montrealers or people that live here go--sorry, but they have the right to choose which language they want to converse in. Say there are two Montrealers that speak English natively or near-natively, or perhaps they're in a group with their friend from Vancouver who doesn't speak French as well as they speak English--are you saying they should be speaking French? That seems quite absurd to me, and situations like that are very common.

    And really, I have noticed nothing in the way of spiteful Anglophones in my personal interactions. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just the same as spiteful Francophones exist, but that does not strike me as the norm. Most Anglophones I've met either speak French or are in the process of learning it, or they're just kind of lazy about learning it and haven't picked up much French--but I don't think I've met anyone that actively refuses to learn French on the basis of their principles.

    In my own interactions, I have also never seen a Francophone being chided for not speaking English or not speaking it well. Then again, I don't stray very far from the central areas of the island and don't often meet many Francophones who don't speak English at least reasonably well.

    Really, what I've noticed more than anything is maybe something you could attribute to the polite Canadian stereotype. People tend to be very accommodating when it comes to negotiating language choice in any interaction. I've certainly heard about the language tension from earlier decades, but I think the younger generations have more distance from that and I haven't noticed that much tension about language politics, personally. I don't think that one language really has a significantly higher status over the other (in everyday life--obviously in politics, French has the higher status by law). Both languages are used side-by-side in daily interactions, both languages are learned by immigrants to Montreal, and I think most Montrealers would not look down upon speakers of either language.

    Like I said though, I really don't like getting involved in this type of discussion. I think that I'm quite far from being the best or most informed person to discuss this, but really I'm at a loss as to how you've developed such a strong and negative perception of the language situation in this city, particularly after only a few months. My perception has been that people seem to generally be very open and accommodating regarding language here, despite the vocal minority who aren't, and despite the history and laws of this province. Obviously there are plenty of exceptions to that, and some tension does exist, but I don't get the impression that this city is at war, with the Anglophones apparently being demonized side.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  11. Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Hauts-de-Seine, France
    English (Ireland)
    Hatred? No, not really, though the ''Westmount Rhodesian'' stereotype is most definitely alive and well from what I've encountered.

    From, say, mid-Sherbrooke Street West down into Sainte Catherine you can literally walk for around 40 minutes and hear almost nothing but English, I do it regularly. The point I'm making is that in a Francophone province I find it surprising, and a little disappointing really. The concerns of French activists over the future of the language on the island of Montreal are, to my mind, absolutely justified. If it weren't for the laws on French signage, you probably wouldn't even know you're in a Francophone city.

    Though I do admit that perhaps the issues I have come across are specific to my part of Montreal, I don't know further afield well enough to comment.

    No, I'm not saying that. However, I have come across situations where I have been speaking French in shops in Westmount to friends and had the cashiers speak to me in English, and continue speaking English even when I reply in French. I've also met a rather surprisingly large number of people who denigrate Quebec French as inferior to the French version and blame the ''separatists'' for imposing French on them as if it were the crime of the century. This is the sort of thing I find quite annoying.

    I'm not saying it's the opinion of the majority of Anglophone Montrealers, but such feeling is definitely there and was a bit of an eye-opener to me.

    The city isn't at war over linguistic issues, that's obviously hyperbole, but I really feel the bilingualism thing is tilted heavily one way. Quebeckers are expected to speak English, but certain English-speakers (not all) are very content to live their lives in English only, though amongst the young things seem to be a different, as you say.

    Now that has been my experience in my short time here, but it hasn't been yours, which is good. I resurrected this thread to get other opinions on it and am happy if my experience proves to be an atypical one. :)
  12. merquiades

    merquiades Senior Member

    USA Northeast
    I don't have as much experience with Montréal as you all who are living there. I've visited it several times and spent weeks there albeit it's been a few years. I always went with the idea of having a francophone experience and made a point of speaking only in French to everybody. I suppose I could have spoken English to people in the service industry. In shops and restaurants people often address you with a Bonjour-Hello and wait to see what happens. That gives the impression they're open to both languages. In general people did speak to me in French except in that Sherbrooke Street area you talk about which seems very anglicized, especially in bars and pubs there. It was obvious the English presence around there. But, that may be just the neighborhood which we could compare to any ethnic area of any city. In other areas, like the east, it seemed exclusively francophone to me. What are your impressions of other neighborhoods?

    I had nice exchanges in French with wonderful people in Montréal and I really didn't have the impression of being in an Anglophone city but like I said I didn't look to speak English. The people are very appreciative when you speak in French. But, I wouldn't go so far to say I heard only French being spoken in Montréal though. There was definitely more English than what you find in France, except maybe around the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre :) Actually there are lots of anglophone tourists who speak to people directly in English wherever they travel in the world without making any effort to adapt to the local environment. But I want to avoid stereotyping. I'm sure there are many Canadians living in Montréal who speak fluent French, especially if nowadays all schooling is supposed to be in French. That said, perhaps avoid English permanently is complicated. Outside Montréal, especially in the Québec city area, I've heard there is no English, but unfortunately I haven't made it there.

    I'm in favor of the strict language laws in place promoting French and enforcing its use. If they didn't exist immigrants and people from other provinces might impose English as a working language and might choose not to learn French ever. Louise Harel shouldn't have to learn English if it's not her choice. A positive sign I did notice was the immigrants (Italians and Portuguese) speaking to each other in French.

    Enjoy Montréal!
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
  13. Languagethinkerlover Senior Member

    English-British and U.S.
    I noticed there's a difference in the ethnicities. I saw a more Arabic (especially Lebanese) influence in Quebec. I don't mean to say that Quebec is influenced by people of Arabic background, but I noticed their presence more in Quebec.

    There might also be a bigger West African (from French-speaking countries notably) population in Quebec than Western Canada.

    Obviously, French plays a bigger role in Quebec. I think they try to preserve the language but I do not...it's not easy. At least in Montreal, I notice they know English very well but I do not think it is the same for the rest of Canada. I do not think they know French as well as the Quebecois know English (in Quebec, outside of Montreal, the people have been said to speak mostly in French).

    I often read that politics in Quebec is different from politics west of Quebec. I suppose this could be said of all provinces in Canada though. I hear that Quebec is a pretty liberal province and some say it's the most liberal province in Canada.

    Some say the Quebecois are rude, I think the biggest difference between Quebec and the West is definitely cultural (in my opinion) and acceptance of different cultures/attitudes/actions (or lack of acceptance).
  14. Askalon Senior Member

    English (US)
    Yes, this is a primarily Francophone province, but Montreal has been a bilingual city for centuries.

    I think that your comment about the fact that this would have just turned into an Anglophone city if laws had not been enforced is going into an area neither of us are familiar with. I think it's likely an exaggeration, but it's also not really possibly to know what the language situation of the city would be like today without the language laws unless you were here prior to the Quiet Revolution. I'm assuming you weren't living here then, and neither was I.

    I've heard (including from one of my professors, I think, if that adds any credibility to the claim) that a lot of the Francophones at the time felt that English was the language of the "ruling class" because historically it had been so. I believe that really wasn't the case anymore at the time of the Revolution, but was rather just spoken by primarily middle and lower class Anglophones, but that because of the history behind English in Montreal perhaps Francophones felt that making it inferior to French was sort of a middle finger to the "ruling class". I don't personally have any thoughts on that really and my memory might be a little foggy, but I figured I'd throw it out there as maybe an indication that this wasn't simply "English is killing French, therefore we need to promote French and squash English." I don't deny that French was likely threatened to some extent (again, I didn't live here, so I don't know), but it seems like there were probably many other factors involved too, like nationalism (not really any denying that one...) and probably prejudice for some people.

    That's a really common experience, which you probably know from talking to other people. It's generally agreed that they're just choosing the easiest path--if their English is better than your French, then they're going to speak in English. Either because they're trying to make it easier for you or because they don't have the patience to try to understand your French. I wouldn't really read into that as any sort of a negative sentiment towards French, or whatever you were getting at.

    Keep in mind Quebeckers doesn't refer to either language. Both Anglophones and Francophones are Quebeckers. I know what you meant though.

    Who's forming these "expectations"? I don't feel there's really any excessive expectation that Francophones need to speak English, beyond just practicality--in downtown and surrounding areas it's frequently needed for jobs or whatnot, but that's because there are a lot of Anglophones in those areas and there are enough people competent in English that employers are able to require that and still find workers. And I think as far as government expectations go, there's certainly the expectation that Anglophones learn French.

    But as far as just society's "expectations" go, I guess, I don't really feel there's excessive pressure to be bilingual on either group. You're generally not an outcast if you only speak French, and you're generally not an outcast if you only speak English, unless someone feels like plopping themselves down in the middle of a group using a language they don't know. Whatever languages you speak, you speak. Of course there's the minority of people that shoves their own language in your face, but that's a minority.

    I know it's not what you were saying, but I think an interesting related point regarding simply the livelihood or "force" of either language is that it can be reflected to some extent in the immigrant community. I.e. those who speak neither language as their first. I believe most immigrants tend learn French (or both languages, but at least French) when they move here. It's a different sort of bilingualism than what you were talking about, but maybe it just adds some perspective regarding language expectations--it's expected that immigrants speak French more than it's expected they speak English.
  15. Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Hauts-de-Seine, France
    English (Ireland)
    Thanks to all for their contributions, very interesting!

    I'm basing this off the situation pre-1970s, where the signage was almost exclusively in English and even getting served in French at restaurants was a struggle (at least, so said Rene Levesque). The Anglophones also, apparently, controlled many if not most of the upper-ranking jobs. I think more than a trace of this conflict remains today.

    The power of English in North America is almost overwhelming, and I think the resistance of French is actually a magnificent feat, but it's certainly going to remain a struggle for the foreseeable future. French dipped below 50 per cent on the island of Montreal in 2006 for the first time ever.

    Without blowing my own trumpet, I'd really doubt their English is better than my French (I have a French Masters degree). Besides my partner, who is actually French, got the same treatment!

    Like I said, it's not a majority thing, but this curious anti-French sentiment is certainly there in my experience.

    Put it like this, if you tried to live and work only in French in Montreal I think you'd have grave difficulties, I don't think those same difficulties apply for English-speakers in general, I know a number who cannot say anything more than ''bonjour'' and get along just as well as if they were living in Toronto, New York or any other English-speaking city in North America.

    Personally, I think this is rather unfortunate, Montreal is after all ''une ville de langue française'' according to the city's charter.
  16. Istriano

    Istriano Senior Member

    Having visited NF, I want to make some things clear. ;)

    1. There is no single Newfoundland accent, there are many accents, which reflect the different waves of immigration, the southeast (the Avalon peninsula) is Irish-influenced, the rest of the island has received immigrants from Southwestern England (Devon, Cornwall) and Scotland.

    2. The accent used in the capital (St. John's) is one of the most neutral Northern American accents you can find, it matches the pronunciations given in the Merriam Webster's Learner's dictionary almost perfectly. This accent is devoid of Canadianisms (like Canadian raising or Canadian vowel Shift), and it's closer to the Standard American accent used in Mountain West (Denver, Salt Lake City, Phoenix). This accent is known as a ''Townie accent''.

    So, while in Vancouver many vowels sound British-like or ValleyGirlesque
    (the rounded vowel in Dawn/Don/Hong Kong/wrong song/collar/caller/dollar/John/cot/caught), in St. John's they are more closer to the conservative Western General American (with the unrounded vowel [ä] in all these words, as indicated in the MW Learner's dictionary).

    3. Newfoundland used to be poor, but not anymore. It has the 4th largest GDP per capita in Canada (behind Northwest Territories, Alberta, and Saskatchewan), the oil industry changed everything.

    Going back to the topic,
    Quebec (along with Toronto) has always been more Euro-friendly than US-influenced. Back in the 1990is, the European dance music was virtually ignored by Americans and by most Canadians, but not in Quebec and in Toronto. Eurodance was huge there. Many Quebec Djs and singers formed groups and projects of their own, which was called Canadian Eurodance or Canadance. :D Although sung in English, the majority of performers and Dj's were from Ottawa and Montreal. I adored Take my in your Arms by Emjay and One More Time by Jacynthe .

    Eurodance Encyclopedia has 76 registrated Eurodance artists
    from Canada, and 90 % of them are from Quebec:


    As for the bilingualism in Canada, you can find it in Ottawa-Gatineau, Montreal and the northern parts of the province of New Brunswick.

    Natasha St-Pier is the most famous French-singing artist from New Brunswick. She is huge in Europe. :eek: She even sang for France at the Eurovision Song Contest. :thumbsup:

    Montreal and Barcelona (ok Mumbai too) are one of the few bilingual cities in the world.
    (Brussels and Dublin are bilingual only in theory).
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2011
  17. Harry Batt

    Harry Batt Senior Member

    USA English
    My connection to Québec, Canada ended in 1982 when my exe took her Divorce decree, bicycle and daughter, Luci, back to Montréal. How Québec went along in Minneapolis might explain a lot how Minneapolis might have gone in Montréal. Luci managed to gain admission to a high school which featured English immersion. As it turned out, she was given passing grades in courses which were never completed; English, Psychology, and everything else. Luci's mother, my exe, explained that it would be a feather in Luci's cap to have a diploma from an English school. Luci hugged tight to the notion that her life would be just fine and dandy if she could get back to jobless Jacques and get married as tradition would have it. She was then a 16 year old high school graduate. My exe had spent the year of her marriage in English speaking USA. She avoided any communication that required English writing, or reading. I had picked up a speeding ticket in Ontaria during the drive to the USA. The exe made a stand absolute. She would not let me pay the fine. Then she poured over maps to find an entry back to Québec which avoided Ontario. She had been a Québec seamstress for a textile business and expected to get a job sewing. The many times that I had visited with the exe's family had left me with a clear impression that Québec's French heritage controlled the attitude in Québec.
  18. barkley04

    barkley04 Senior Member

    arabic tunisia
    Well, allow me to say that Canada is like a small world where there are only two countries: France and Great Britain. In the french part of Canada or the Province of Quebec, the french language is so priviledged because it is an identity symbol to get referenced to their struggle against the Anglophones. All what you have to do is speak french and you will be fine.
  19. Kikurukina Senior Member

    Canadian English
    This is a very dangerous question that I don't really like it when people ask me this. West Canada is a huge portion of Canada has myriad of different cultures there. For one, I dislike the generalisation implied in this question. West Canada is much more than West Canada and same is said for the French-speaking part.

    I am an anglophone from Montreal and I've visited Toronto, Quebec City, Stratford, Edmonton, Vancouver and Chicoutimi. I've gone through English elemetary and high school and now I'm attending a French college.

    First of all, obviously there are differences, but you have to understand that East Canada (Quebec and the Maritime provinces) is much more older than West Canada. Vancouver is just over 100 years old and Quebec is what? 400? In terms of city-planning and architecture, Montreal has a very European feel where the streets and blocks then to be smaller as oppose to Edmonton which has huge blocks and eight lane highways with a cowboy feel. Everytime I walk in Edmonton and I see a car try to run me over, I keep thinking that this city was made for driving, not walking. I suppose hundreds of years ago, before cars, they had horses. Then I look at Vancouver with their clean transportation and very American city-planning. Newer cities seem westernised and modernised simply because they are younger and more readily available to new concepts. Then I look at Montreal and think, we can't do any of that because that would involve demolishing a good portion of the city, which is why we seem to have our European trappings.
  20. Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Hauts-de-Seine, France
    English (Ireland)
    Let me assure you that there's nothing European in the way Montreal is laid out, it's 110 per cent North American. I was surprised at just how typically American it is when I got here, everyone had told me that Montreal was ''the'' European city in Canada.

    The only ''European'' feeling city in Quebec, both by lay out and general culture, that I've been to is Quebec City, and even then, it's mostly limited to the centre and old Quebec.
  21. Kikurukina Senior Member

    Canadian English
    I agree that Montreal is American but I don't see the need for everything to be "bigger and better" in Montreal like it is over in the west. I'm not saying that Montreal looks anything like a city in Europe visually. Even in residential areas, it's easy tell what used be English and what used to be French.
  22. Pedro y La Torre Senior Member

    Hauts-de-Seine, France
    English (Ireland)
    I'd agree. Visually, Montreal is rather ugly I'm sorry to say, the metro stations, for example, are the epitome of terrible 1960s architecture, but the atmosphere itself is great. Not European, but very different to what I've found in Toronto and other parts of Ontario.
  23. Copperknickers Senior Member

    Scotland - Scots and English
    To be honest, few places in France or Britain are layed out in what North Americans imagine to be the 'European' style, except for our old centres. A lot of British cities like Glasgow and Birmingham are more American than the likes of Boston in many ways. Montreal definitely reminds me of Glasgow, complete with the bilinguality: English on the one hand, and drunken phlegmatic growling (aka Glaswegian Scots) on the other. :p

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