rahavirtana ajateltuna

Discussion in 'Suomi (Finnish)' started by Gavril, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA

    I'm not sure exactly how to translate the highlighted phrase below:

    "Thus, the cooperation agreement between the companies, [considered as cash flow?], will become a loss to Nokia."

    Is the phase rahavirtana ajateltu modifying yhteistyösopimus, or does it fit elsewhere in the sentence structure?

    Kiitoksia paljon
  2. Hakro

    Hakro Senior Member

    Helsinki, Finland
    Finnish - Finland
    "Considered as cash flow" is an exact translation. I just can't understand why the writer hasn't said simply taloudellisesti.

    I think that the idea is that the result of the cooperation agreement will be an economical loss to Nokia but there may be other advantages.
  3. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    The preceding sentence is
    The idea is that Nokia has been paying x to Microsoft and Microsoft has been paying y to Nokia.

    So far x has been a smaller number than y, but soon x will be more than y.

    I think "rahavirtana ajateltuna" ((if/when) considered as cash flow, or maybe in terms of cash flow) means that the real value of whatever the companies buy from each other has been left out of the equation.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  4. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA
    But what exactly is being "considered" (= ajateltu) as cash flow here? I.e., what noun in the sentence is ajateltu modifying? (My best guess is that it modifies yhteistyösopimus, and I think Hakro agreed with this above, unless I misunderstood.)

    I understood the general point that Nokia is about to be paying more than it's receiving; I was just a little bit confused by the syntax of rahavirtana ajateltuna in the sentence I quoted.

    Kiitos vielä kerran
  5. Spongiformi Senior Member

    I reckon the author didn't use "taloudellisesti" for the explicit reason that it gives a wrong impression of the bigger picture. Whereas "cash flow" is nothing but a detached detail. Using common sense the OS is a component of the phone, and Nokia should be paying for every component: screen, battery, CPU, memory chips, etc, naturally including the OS. So, one cannot say that it's automatically "taloudellisesti tappiollinen" because Nokia is supposed to cover the whole cost of the phone in the end-user price. The deal with MS was abnormal in the beginning due to MS wanting to increase its market share by any means available, including paying a phone maker.

    If the author knew MS was going to charge outrageous money for the OS, then he might have used "taloudellisesti" instead (because it would be true).
  6. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    In a different sentence, yhteistyösopimus would have been the object of the verb ajatella.
    Jos ajattelemme yhteistyösopimusta rahavirtana, se on tappiollinen = Rahavirtana ajateltuna sopimus on tappiollinen.

    Jos kirje lähetetään postitse, se voi kadota. = Postitse lähetettynä kirje voi kadota. ("If sent by mail, ...")

    So yes, syntactically ajateltuna definitely refers to yhteistyösopimus.

    See also VISK 976 §: "essiivisijainen passiivinen partisiippilauseke" and VISK 970 § (e), (f), (g).
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  7. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    On the other hand, in the fixed expression "tarkemmin ajateltuna" ajateltuna doesn't modify any word.

    Tarkemmin ajateltuna täällä ei kannattaisi asua.

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