Respectful passive

[Encolpius]

Good morning, I'm just a beginner in Japanese. I am trying to master the Passive form of verbs. My question is: Why is it said it is a respectful passive? Are there any other forms of passive? Thanks.

 

[gengo]

Why is it said it is a respectful passive? Are there any other forms of passive?

The passive voice in Japanese is used in various ways. The first is similar to how the passive voice is used in English. For example:
建物はフランク・ロイド・ライトに(よって)設計された (The building was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright)
蚊に刺された (I was bitten by a mosquito)

The second is something that doesn't exist in English, but is an honorific form that shows respect and politeness. For example:
よく来られました (Thank you for coming / Nice to meet you / etc.)
社長がお手紙を書かれました (The president wrote a letter)

The passive can also be used to show that the subject was affected somehow by the verb action.
雨に降られた (She got rained on)

 

[Encolpius]

Very interesting, thanks. I use the tables in Takoboto dictionary and there I see that phrase.

 

[Flaminius]

I have never heard of this concept. When I Googled the Takoboto Dictionary for "respectful passive", all I could find was references to certain conjugations as forms that means either politeness or passivity. This makes sense. E.g.:

Passive, Respectful
驚かれる, 驚かれます
is [done] (by ...), will be [done] (by ...)
驚かれない, 驚かれません
isn't [done] (by ...), will not be [done] (by ...)

I reiterate that there is no such concept as respectful passive. As Latin faciam is either future or subjunctive, so 驚かれる is either passive or respectful.

 

[Joschl]

It may have to do something with a description of -(ra)reru such as

"The passive form can be used as an honorific form, [...]"
Kanshudo Grammar detail: using passive form as honorific

which gives the impression that the "honorification" function of that verbal suffix would be derived from its passivization function. I find it misleading to describe the passive meaning of that suffix as being basic to its other meanings.

 

[gengo]

I have never heard of this concept.

You have never heard that there is a Japanese honorific form that looks exactly like the passive voice form? I find that hard to believe.

Here is what one textbook says:
The passive voice can also be used to convey politeness. The reason is that the passive voice makes the sentence less direct, which thereby makes the sentence more polite. The passive voice is slightly less honorific than お~になる. This honorific passive voice can be distinguished from of the normal passive voice by context and by a lack of an agent marked by に.

• 田中先生は日本へ帰かえられた。

In the above example, the meaning is clearly not the normal passive voice, which would be that Tanaka-sensei was returned to Japan. That would make no sense (unless we were talking about a dead body).

This honorific passive form is very common.

 

[Encolpius]

I have never heard of this concept. When I Googled the Takoboto Dictionary for "respectful passive", all I could find was references to certain conjugations as forms that means either politeness or passivity. This makes sense. E.g.:

Yes, exactly, but the word respectful is written only to the Passive conjugation of the verbs, not to any other conjugation where -masu endings are, so that's why I thought that passive form is special, respectful.

 

[Flaminius]

If you are referring to the polysemy of -(r)areru, gengo, I am aware that this morpheme codes the verb either with passive or respect. It is just wrong to think of 帰られた by the term "honorific passive" as if there were other flavours of passives such as disrespectful passive, or casual passive.

You are wondering, Encolpius, how conjugations suffixed with -masu are not labelled respectful. A short answer is -masu codes for good manners, not respectfulness. You can read all sorts of explainers out there on the difference between -(r)areru and -masu. I'd just mention that the former is used for actions by persons of honour, and the latter is used for almost everything.

 

[gengo]

It is just wrong to think of 帰られた by the term "honorific passive"

That is what it is frequently called in English. It's not "wrong" if it serves a purpose, and I believe it does. It tells English speakers that you can use the same form for both passive voice and an honorific construction.

 

[Flaminius]

Rereading your quote above, I realise "honorific passive" is contrasted with the お〜になる construction. Well then, I must admit it's a technical term with a respectable function.

 

[Joschl]

The passive voice can also be used to convey politeness.

I still find that wording at least misunderstanding because honorific example are in the active voice as in the example above.

田中先生は日本へ帰かえられた。

We just refer to the "form" of a particular suffix used to convey the passive voice, among others but not to the "passive voice" itself as a grammatical category. Within the framework of the traditional grammar, the same suffix form is also used to express the ability or possibility to do something in the active voice with vowel stem verbs "(X)i-ru", "(X)e-ru" and 来る.

今日は忙しすぎて，朝ご飯を食べられなかった。
JLPT先生

Because we simply use the functional term "the passive voice" as the "name" of a particular verbal suffix, it will certainly be much less confusing for beginners to just say,

"[Y]ou can use the same form for both passive voice and an honorific construction."

 

[KLAUSED]

Note that the use of passive voice to express respect doesn't work when formulating a request, although it's very common in some regions of Japan.

e.g.) お席にお戻りください。=>お席に戻られてください。
　　　気をつけてお帰りください。=>気をつけて帰られてください。

 

[SoLaTiDoberman]

Note that the use of passive voice to express respect cannot be applied when the subject is "I" or "we."

In other words, when the subject is "the first-person/persons," the passive voice indicates exactly "the passive voice," not expressing respect.