cion suffix universally female, but not ion like avion y camionHi all,
I'm wondering if anyone can give me some examples of words that are cognates between two or more of these four Romance languages, but for which the gender is different in at least one. (Just as an example of one of the many possible combinations: a word that exists as a cognate in Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian, yet is masculine in Spanish and Portuguese but feminine in Italian...)
Any examples greatly appreciated... thanks!
I don't if these two have the same origin, but here they are:
Port: o pavor, It: la paura
French: la peurIn Romanian we don't have the cognate "pavor/paura" instead we use "teamă" (Lat. timere) and "frică" (Ngr. phrikē).
My Latin dictionary says A, B and C can be either feminin or neuter... I presume this is valid for all letters.... I'll check later, if you really want me toSo letters are masculine in Portuguese and French, and feminine in Spanish and Italian...
Anyone know about the gender of the letters in Latin or its other descendants?
Regarding Portuguese, yes, letters are masculine but the word letter, itself, is feminine.So letters are masculine in Portuguese and French, and feminine in Spanish and Italian...
Why would some of the letters have different genders than the rest? Latin grammar isn't that unpredictable, is it?My Latin dictionary says A, B and C can be either feminin or neuter... I presume this is valid for all letters.... I'll check later, if you really want me to
You are right. In Spanish (and I think in Portuguese is the same) we have: Temor (sp. masc) (from lat. TIMOR,masc), Pavor (sp, masc) (lat. PAVOR masc) and Miedo (sp., masc) / Medo (pt) (lat. METUS -masc-.)Según mi diccionario "pavor" significa más bien horror que miedo.
Cat. el llet (m) Spa. la leche (f) - milk
And they are feminine too in Catalan: la sal, la mel, la llet, la sang.Salt, honey, milk, blood are masculin in Italian and French (le sel / il sale, le miel / il miele, le lait / il latte, le sang / il sangue) whereas they are feminin in Spanish (la sal, la miel, la leche, la sangre).
It seems that sang and sal are feminine while lach and mèl are masculine in Occitan.And they are feminine too in Catalan: la sal, la mel, la llet, la sang.
In Spanish we also have la pavura, so with the same gender as the Italian or French counterpart, even if it is not so common.Sometimes the gender is different because it comes from different words in latin meaning the same, with different genders, for example with nose (example mentioned before), we have:
NASUS (masc.) -> cat. el nas , fr. le nez, it. il naso ,ro. nas (n.)
NāRIS (fem.)-> port, sp. -->In Spanish: La Nariz (fem.)
You are right. In Spanish (and I think in Portuguese is the same) we have: Temor (sp. masc) (from lat. TIMOR,masc), Pavor (sp, masc) (lat. PAVOR masc) and Miedo (sp., masc) / Medo (pt) (lat. METUS -masc-.)
Miedo (sp.) is used as a general way to express FEAR.
Temor is a higher degree of Miedo, there is also the verb Temer ( from lat. TIMERE) and Pavor is an extreme fear, kind of horror.
I think I have heard in Sassarese la restha for the rest, but I'm not 100% sure. There is also lu resthu, anyways.Three words that are femenine in Catalan but masculine in all other major Romance languages:
Catalan ORENGA f2) 'rest (remainder)'
French ORIGAN m
Italian ORIGANO m
Portuguese ORÉGANO m
Romanian OREGANO m
Spanish ORÉGANO m
Catalan RESTA f - Les darreres restes d'aquella civilització. Les restes mortals.
French RESTE m - Les derniers restes de cette civilisation. Les restes mortels.
Italian RESTO m - Gli ultimi resti di quella civiltà. I resti mortali.
Portuguese RESTO m - Os últimos restos daquela civilização. Os restos mortais.
Romanian REST n
Spanish RESTO m - Los últimos restos de aquella civilización. Los restos mortales.
Catalan TONYINA f - La tonyina blanca, la tonyina vermella.
French THON m - Le thon blanc, le thon rouge.
Italian TONNO m - Il tonno bianco, il tonno rosso.
Portuguese ATUM m - O atum branco, o atum vermelho.
Romanian TON m - Tonul alb, tonul roşu.
Spanish ATÚN m - El atún blanco, el atún rojo.
We also have équipe feminine in French, l'équipe, and in Portuguese, a equipa in Portugal and a equipe in Brazil.Romanian:
o echipă (f.)
un râs (n.)
un surâs (n.)
In Romanian we don't have the cognate "pavor/paura" instead we use "teamă" (Lat. timere) and "frică" (Ngr. phrikē).
Hope this helped!
In Italian and Sardinian there are a lot of examples :
It. l'estate (f) Sar. s'istìu (m) - summer
It. la primavera (f) Sar. su berànu (m) - spring
It. la sera (f) Sar. su sero (m) - evening
It. la notte (f) Sar. su notte (m) - night
It. il fico (m) Sar. sa figu (f) - fig
It. la testuggine (f) Sar. su tostòine (m) - turtle
It. l'orecchio (m) Sar. s'orìja (f) - ear (the J is pronounced like Y)
It. il dente (m) Sar. sa dente (f) - tooth
It. l'albero (m) Sar. s'àrvure (f) - tree
It. il pomodoro (m) Sar. sa pumàta (f) - tomato Also sa tamata in central Sardinia and tamàtiga in the South.
It. il labbro (f) Sar. sa lara/lavra (f) - lip
It. la pesca (f) Sar. su pèssiche, pèssighe (m) - peach (Lat. "persica, persicae")
It. l'albicocca (f) Sar. su paracocco, barracocco (m) - apricot (Lat. "praecocus") Su piricoc(c)o in the centre.
It. la neve (f) Sar. su nie (m) - snow
It. la grandine (f) Sar. su ràndine (m) - hail
It. il merlo (m) Sar. sa mèrula (f) - blackbird
more in Italian and Sardinian
It. la lepre (f) Sar. su lèpere (m) - hare
It. l'arancia (f) Sar. s'arantzu (m) - orange
It. il cucchiaio (m) Sar. sa cucciàra / cullera (f) - spoon (cucciàra is typical of north Sardinia, from Spanish "cuchara"; cullera is typical of the south, from Catalan "cullera")
It. il caminetto (m) Sar. sa tziminèra / tziminèa (f) - fireplace (similar to Italian "ciminiera" = chimney) Yes, like Spanish la chimenea, for example...In the centre it is sa giminera.
It. la vespa (f) Sar. su 'espe (m) - wasp Also su 'espu (ghespu).
It. il banco (m) - desk Sar. sa banca (f) - table
It. il timore (m) Sar. sa timòria (f) - fear
It. il vestiario (m) Sar. sa bestimenta (f) - wardrobe, clothes, vestment, elegant dress
It. gli intestini (m) Sar. sas istentìnas (f) - intestines I didn't know sas istentinas but sas intragnas (Spanish las entrañas).
It. lo zolfo (m) Sar. sa sùlfera / bùlfera / bùlvera (f) - sulphur
It. la rapina (f) Sar. s'irrobatoriu (m) - robbery
It. la ruggine (f) Sar. su ruìnzu (m) - rust
It. il singhiozzo (m) Sar. sa taccullitta / ticcullitta / tuccullitta / singullitta (f) - hiccup Sa tzicuria more down south.
Thanks, it could also be that I heard that, I'm not sure. I will ask my acquaintances if they know the word.It. gli intestini (m) Sar. sas istentìnas (f) - intestines I didn't know sas intestinas but sas intragnas (Spanish las entrañas).
Also here we use to say "sas intragnas", but it's referred to all the entrails, while "sas istentinas" is specifical to the intestines
The same phenomenon of change intestinas -> istentinas; happens also in Corsican language : intestinu -> stintina (pl. stintine)
In this area of Sardinia (Mejlogu) and in northwestern Sardinia in general we use to say them both masculine and feminine with a slight change of meaning :Another word that is different in some languages is the noun for day (I mean the one derived from Latin dies, therefore not jour/giorno, for example).
In Sardinian is feminine, sa die/sa dì, and so is also in Sassarese/Gallurese, la dì.
In Romanian is also feminine, o zi (one day).
On the contrary, it is masculine in Spanish, el día, Portuguese, o dia, Catalan, el dia, and Italian, il dì.
Yes I knew that in some parts of Logudoro they also say su die, but in central Sardinia as well as in the south it is just sa die/sa dì, I am sure, and there is not any difference like in these Italian nouns (giorno and giornata). The same applies for Sassarese and, as far as I know, for Gallurese.In this area of Sardinia (Mejlogu) and in northwestern Sardinia in general we use to say them both masculine and feminine with a slight change of meaning :
Sardinian - Italian
su die = il giorno
sa die = la giornata
su notte = la notte
sa notte = la nottata
About the sentences "di giorno / di notte", the structure here is a bit different :
di giorno = a de die Yes it is like that also in my area.
di notte = a de notte The same.
a tarda notte = a notte manna I guess I heard one or both of these, I don't know if they are still very common though. Maybe the first one more.
in pieno giorno = a die manna
while sentences like "di mattina / di sera" have another kind of structure
di mattina = a parte (d)e manzanu Yes I heard both and they use them, just with "merìe" statt "sero".
di sera = a parte (d)e sero
di mattina presto = a manzanu chito Very common, but "chitzo" statt "chito".
di mattina prestissimo / all'alba = a manzanile No, they don't use this. That would be "abreschende" ("arbeschende") or "a s'abreschidozu/abreschidògiu", "a s'abrèschida" ("arbèschida").
al canto del gallo = a s'impuddile Neither this, unfortunately. Or at least I haven't heard it.
di pomeriggio = passadu mesu die A bit down south it is a little bit different. They don't use "sero" at all, it doesn't even exist the concept of something like the Italian "sera", while both "the afternoon"/"il pomeriggio" and "the beginning of the evening" are su merìe (more to the south, already in the Campidanese area, exactly the same but "su merì"). Afterwards it is su notte. That would be starting with the evening already, before "the night" like in English or in Italian and exactly the same as in Spanish with "la tarde" and then "la noche", no "evening" (it is like that also in Catalan and Portuguese). So, "di pomeriggio" is a merìe und "di sera" is a de notte. For this reason, they never use "passa(d)u mesu die" in this context, it would be useless because that's already "a merìe". If they use this expression they just mean that "midday has already gone".
di sera tardi = a tardu mannu Sure they use that.
Interesting, thanks. I would say, though, that it was uncommon in the past and rather obsolete nowadays, because I have never heard or read it and the Corpus does not seem to include it much in the last centuries (and when it does, it looks as if it is referred to the second meaning, a type of dolphin, probably a local usage in some Latin American countries).As for tonyina, you have this word in feminine even in Spanish, la tonina, even though it is not so common, so it is not an exclusive Catalan usage.
I quote from the RAE dictionary:
Der. del lat. thunnus 'atún', y este del gr. θύννος thýnnos.
1. f. atún (‖ pez).
2. f. delfín1.
I've never heard of labrum to be in usage! It's from Anatomy, which is why this word stays in Latin.Just wanted to add those words in Romanian that were missing from your list Jazyk and their gender.
4. in Romanian you can use the word labrum* (n.) for "lip", but the most common is "buză".
7. tomată (f.)
It depends on the context Irinet – when it comes to labrum, anatomists and doctors are more likely to use the term than any schmo off the street. The term is also specifically used to designate the upper lip of an insect so it admittedly belongs to scientific vocabulary.I've never heard of labrum to be in usage! It's from Anatomy, which is why this word stays in Latin.
And for 7, we often use roşii, which is why 'tomată' can be found on the cans with boiled tomatos: pastă de tomate.
Though we never ask for tomate when going to the market, it's interesting to know how this word has come to be used in a technological process.