Romance Languages: ir embora, andare via

albondiga

Senior Member
English/USA
Hi,

I was just wondering if there is a difference between the way ir embora is used in Portuguese and the way andare via is used in Italian... are there instances where one could be used but not the other?

Also, do the usages of these words differ from that of irse in Spanish? At the very least they seem to be used perhaps very slightly more frequently (maybe that's just my imagination or my relatively limited exposure?), but is there also some diffierent matiz?

Also, does French have a parallel phrase/term, and if so then is it used with the same frequency? (I can't bring one to mind at the moment, but I'm sure I'm just blanking on something obvious here...)

Finally, does this construction from the Portuguese and Italian date back to Latin, or it is something newer?
 
  • jazyk

    Senior Member
    Brazílie, portugalština
    I've always equated ir embora (sometimes also ir-se) with andare via, irse et s'en aller (in French, as you asked). I might be wrong, though.

    Ir embora is said to come from ir em boa hora (to go in good time).
     

    albondiga

    Senior Member
    English/USA
    Interesting! For some reason, it seemed strange to me that these phrases would all translate so well between the different languages, but I guess they do... anyway, thanks, that will make things much easier for me :D !
     

    jazyk

    Senior Member
    Brazílie, portugalština
    If you're thinking literally, yes, I agree, but I don't see much of a difference between andare via and andarsene, either, but as I said, I could be wrong and/or overgeneralizing.
     

    aum34

    Member
    Spanish & Catalan- Spain
    Andare via would be in Spanish IRSE in Imperative:

    Vete! (tú) Vai via!
    Idos (vosotros) Idos! but Iros! in informal language

    Andarsene

    Also IRSE or MARCHARSE

    Me ne vado = Me voy, me marcho.
     

    Sardokan1.0

    Senior Member
    Sardu / Italianu
    In Sardinian we use "che" (pronounce "ke" , abbreviation of Latin "hicce") to reinforce this kind of phrases, it coincides roughly with the Italian "ce, ci, ne"

    Italian - Sardinian

    andarsene - si ch'andare

    me ne vado - mi ch'ando
    te ne vai - ti ch'àndas
    se ne va - si ch'àndat
    ce ne andiamo - nos ch'andamus
    ve ne andate - bos ch'andàdes
    se ne vanno - si ch'àndan


    Example :


    Italian - Sardinian

    Il film non mi piaceva e sono andato via dal cinema prima che finisse - Su film no mi piaghìat e mi che so andadu dae su cinema primu qui essèret finidu.

    Imperative :


    vai = bae (Latin "vade")
    vattene! = baedìcche! (bae + ti/di + che)
    andate = andade / bazi (Latin "vadite")
    andatevene! = andadebòcche! (andade + bos + che)
     

    Dymn

    Senior Member
    In Sardinian we use "che" (pronounce "ke" , abbreviation of Latin "hicce") to reinforce this kind of phrases, it coincides roughly with the Italian "ce, ci, ne"
    How do adverbial pronouns work in Sardinian? Is there anything parallel to hi/y/ci and en/en/ne? Does "che" cover both pronouns?
     

    Sardokan1.0

    Senior Member
    Sardu / Italianu
    How do adverbial pronouns work in Sardinian? Is there anything parallel to hi/y/ci and en/en/ne? Does "che" cover both pronouns?
    Yes there is a parallel, and "che" can cover both pronouns

    hi/y/ci = can be translated with "bi" (Latin "ibi") and also with "che" (hicce)

    en/en/ne = can be translated as "inde" or abbreviated as "nde"; also "che" it's used as replacement of "inde"

    Examples :


    Bi / Che

    bi sun = there are (the use of Bi indicates a certain distance)
    che sun = there are (the use of Che indicates a closer proximity)

    Italian - Sardinian

    cosa ci facciamo li? = ite bi faghimus in hie?
    cosa ci facciamo qui? = ite che faghimus in hoche?


    Inde / Che

    essidìnde dae mesu! = get out of my way! : essi (singular imperative) + ti/di + inde
    essidìche dae mesu! = get out of my way! : essi (singular imperative) + ti/di + che
     

    Floridsdorfer

    Senior Member
    Italian, Spanish, Sardinian (trilingual)
    The explanation of Sandokan is very exhaustive and there is not so much to add, just that in central Sardinia you can also use ddue like bi or che, and in south, due probably to Italian influence, they even use ci.

    For me, vou embora is definitely the same as me ne vado or vado via, the same as me voy o me'n vaig or je m'en vais or mi ch'ando.
    And in Sardinian too is possible to say: baedicche in bon'ora = vete/andate en hora buena (= de una (vez)).
    Sardinians speaking in Italian may also say vattene in buon'ora.
    That is always meant as a "desire" the counterpart should disappear...like to say "go in peace, but just go" :D

    For what the adverbial pronouns concerns, I try to make now just a quick, not exhaustive, comparison:

    EN: there is / there are
    DE: es gibt
    (da ist / da sind)
    ES: hay
    PT: há / tem
    IT: c'è / ci sono
    (in Italian you must always use the plural if the object is in plural, like in English: ci sono problemi, there are problems. That is due to the fact that in Italian and in English you use the verb to be and not to have. Also, in Italian you can use this form with ci along with personal names alternative to the simple verb to be. That means, if you do not begin the sentence with the subject, in Italian you must use the form with ci, whereas in English, Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc., you would always use the simple verb to be. As a consequence, in Italian saying Marco e Maria sono qui or (qui) ci sono Marco e Maria is the same.
    English: Marco and Maria are here; German: Marco und Maria sind da (or da sind Marco und Maria); Spanish: Marco y María están aquí (or acá están Marco y María); Portuguese: Marco e Maria estão aqui (aquí estão Marco e Maria), etc...)
    FR: il y a
    CT: hi ha
    SD: ch'at / b'at / ddu'at

    (in Sardinian, differently from Italian and like in French, Catalan, Spanish or Portuguese, the verb used is to have and according to that you must use this form with the plural: ch'at problemas / b'at problemas / ddu'at problemas.
    With personal names instead, you can use the verb to be like in Italian: (innoghe) che sunt (or suntis) Marco e Maria. Though, I would say that is due to an Italian influence.
    I am not 100% sure if in Catalan it is correct to do something like that...for sure you can say aquí és (está) el Marc, but also (aquí) hi és (está) el Marc?...)

    EN: there is / there are (of that...here it's meant "something left of some thing", like, "there is some bread (left)" )
    DE: es gibt (davon)
    ES: hay (de eso)
    PT: há / tem (de isso)
    IT: ce n'è / ce ne sono
    (one more time, in Italian you must use the plural if the object is in plural: ce ne sono ancora (di albicocche)? (is any apricot left?) )
    FR: il y en a
    CT: n'hi ha
    SD: che nd'at / bi nd'at / ddue nd'at
    (here too, Sardinian works different from Italian and you must use this form also in plural, like in French or Catalan: che (or bi or ddue) nd'at galu (or ancora) de barracocu (or piricoco)?)
     
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