Romance Languages: Mutual Intelligibility

Discussion in 'Other Languages' started by ronanpoirier, Oct 7, 2006.

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  1. ronanpoirier

    ronanpoirier Senior Member

    Porto Alegre
    Brazil - Portuguese
    Inspired by this thread on the Slavic Languages forum, I decided to open one about the Romance Languages in general, not only the main ones. There's another similar thread here.

    What also influenced me to wirte this post to know other people's views, were all those etymology questions where we can see, sometimes totally difference between similar languages or some similarity between very far languages.

    Well, place your bets! :p
     
  2. vince Senior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    English
    What is your question?

    Regarding mutual intelligibility, French and Romanian aren't intelligible with any other Romance language to my knowledge.
    Standard Italian (Tuscan-based) is partially intelligible with Castilian Spanish. I am guessing that Castilian Spanish is partially intelligible with Catalan, though probably less than 60% orally. Castilian Spanish is intelligible with Brazilian Portuguese but less so with European Portuguese. Catalan may be intelligible with Occitan, I am not sure though.

    Historically, there was a dialect continuum. Prior to the mid 1800's, one could go from the Algarve in Portugal to Puglia in what is now southern Italy, where every two neighboring villages on the way could understand each other.
     
  3. john_riemann_soong

    john_riemann_soong Senior Member

    Singapore / United States
    English, Singlish, Chinese; Singapore
    How does one pinpoint classifications on a dialect continuum anyway? (I'm just amazed.)
     
  4. vince Senior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    English
    When nationalist movements arose in the mid to late 1850's and the masses started to become educated, the central governments of each country had to establish a standard "dialect" to teach nationwide. So the dialect continuum between Portugal and Italy gradually collapsed (and is still collapsing) into only five languages: Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, French, and Italian.
     
  5. Mutichou Senior Member

    France
    France - French
    As a French speaker, I cannot understand other Romance languages when they are spoken (except Spanish, but I have studied it). But I can more or less understand written Catalan or Italian.
     
  6. Tino_no Senior Member

    Sinaloa
    Español mexicano
    Hi, I speak spanish and know little italian. I can understand spoken italian and some portuguese, but I've never heard a catalan speaker. I can read very little french but I just cannot understand spoken french because of its large vowel inventory.
    There are other romance languages like Romanian, Occitan, but I barely know something about them.
    Saludos!
     
  7. TarisWerewolf Senior Member

    Kanadassa
    Canada (English)
    Spanish and Italian are somewhat close. I was fluent in Spanish when I left high school, then when I took first-year Italian in university, my Spanish was overwritten. I can still understand Spanish (I can understand it in speech or in writing) but I can't make my own sentences easily... except when necessary. My Italian has waned a little lately, but that's 'cause lack of exposure and practice.
     
  8. BlueWolf

    BlueWolf Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Written French is very clear for me (Italian), I'm able to read French even if I can't speak it. Spoken French isn't.
    About Romanian, I've heard Romanians find Italian quite easy to understand, but the opposite isn't so true.
    Spanish is probably the easiest to understand for an Italian.
     
  9. parakseno

    parakseno Senior Member

    Romania
    Romanian, Romania
    Well, I'm Romanian I could understand Italian pretty well even before studying it a little. I think Italian and Romanian ARE mutually intelligible... well, at least from the Romanian point of view :p

    Don't know what to say about the rest... I think a Romanian that hasn't studied French wouldn't understand a lot, although there are a lot of words of French origin in our language (but he might be able to get around)...

    Spanish is intelligible to a Romanian to a certain extend, but then again that might be because of the many movies in Spanish that are on Romanian TV. Portuguese sounds a bit more exotic (at least to my ears) and I'm not hazarding to make any asumptions here (I shall ask my friends and see their views and I'll come back to you :D).

    I've seen a Romansh text and I could understand quite a lot of it (it was a newspaper article), don't know what to say about the spoken language...

    I've also seen some Aromanian at it looks like some very old Romanian texts (like something from the Middle Ages). I've even heard a bit on TV (I think I'm not allowed to say where... no comercials here :p) but I didn't understand very much. There were words that I could understand, but I think not enough for a proper comprehension of what was being said... But the written text I found much more intelligible, maybe because the person was speaking quite fast.

    Guess that would be enough for now...
     
  10. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Excelent question: you can't.

    In my opinion, some of the replies to this thread have greatly oversimplified the matter. Within each of the Romance languages, there are dialects, which may be more or less intelligible with neighbouring languages. Plus, most posters forgot about "transitional" languages such as Catalan and Occitan. The only Romance language I would agree is quite isolated from the other ones is Romanian. (There used to be languages intermediate between it and the Western Romance languages, but they have become extinct.)

    Having said this, do realize that the situation in Western Europe is different from the one you probably have in China. Around here, individual nations have appeared, they've been around for several centuries in most cases, some for many centuries, and there has been a significant amount of centralization within each of them. To give you a concrete example of what I mean, if you cross the border from Spain to Portugal, the linguistic transition will be sharp. No dialect continuum, in the overwhelming majority of places; Spanish here, Portuguese there. (How different the two are from each other is a different matter.)

    Now, for my experience. I heard Spanish, French, and Italian on and off on TV ever since I was a child. Did I understand them? Or, better said, how much did I understand them?... It's difficult enough to remember, let alone to be objective. Yes, there were lots of words I could recognize, I would even say that I was "learning" a little bit of each of them in the process -- but I had subtitles to help me.

    Nowadays, I can understand spoken standard French, albeit with some difficulty, sometimes, because I haven't had the chance to practice or listen to it much (English is much easier to understand, for me). As for divergent dialects like Quebec French, forget it! Yeah, I can pick up a bit of it, but the effort I have to make to adjust to the different accent is tremendous!

    In spite of all the difficulties I have with French, Italian is considerably harder to understand for me. Yeah, I can recognize a fair percentage of the words, but I can't follow a conversation on TV to any satisfactory degree. The explanation is simple: I studied French at school, I never studied Italian. So, these comparisons get quickly tangled up with one's personal experience.

    As for Spanish, I'm getting better and better at understanding it. Practicing in these forums helps a lot, though it's not the first time I've taken a shot at Spanish. Not many years ago, while I was studying, I would sometimes consult textbooks in Spanish. When the subject is technical, it's generally not difficult to read Spanish. But then, technical jargon is more or less the same, be it in Spanish, Portuguese, English, or Russian.
     
  11. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    I must say that I am quite "shocked" that Romanian and French are apparently two languages that aren't understandable by people from other Romance countries. Yes, they are the languages that have changed the most, but French was for me actually quite easy to learn (let's not talk about Italian, which was even easier for me), because I had Romanian in the back of my mind.

    Limba Română are mult în comun cu limba Franceză.

    La langue Roumaine a beaucoup en commune avec la langue Française.

    As Bluewolf stated in his post, most Romanians understand "some" (in my case, before I started studying 30-35%) written Italian. I also believe that Italians would be able to understand some written Romanian, but not as much as Romanians understanding Italian texts.

    Portuguese, I think, would be the language that common Romanians would have a hard time understanding.

    Toate cele bune! (a Romanian parting phrase, guess what it means!? :D )


    :) robbie

    PS: if you guys want a list where you can compare verbs in the Latin languages and see how many you would understand, please check this thread: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?p=1576228#post1576228
     
  12. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    And yet people often say that Romanian and Portuguese sound similar. :)
     
  13. gwrthgymdeithasol Senior Member

    English, Wales
    As a long-time student of Romance languages, I have to say you couldn't be further from the truth.

    Try these, starting geographically from Portugal: Portuguese, Mirandese, Fala, Galician, Asturian, Aragonese, Spanish, Catalan, Gascon, Occitan, Auvergnat, Provençal, Franco-Provençal, French, Gallo, Picard, Jerseyan, Guernseyan, Walloon, Romansch, Friulian, Ladin, Lombard, Ligurian, Piedmontese, Emiliano-Romagnolo, Venetian, Italian, Neapolitan, Corsican, Sicilian, Sardinian Gallurese, Sardinian Logudorese, Sardinian Sassarese, Sardinian Campidanese, Latin, Moldovan, Romanian, Megleno-Romanian, Istro-Romanian, Macedo-Romanian.

    I visit websites, read books etc in virtually all these languages, and they're all living (with the semi-exception of Latin), although many are in bad shape.

    Just naming languages throws up questions and issues, and no doubt an Italian will be along soon to state categorically that Sicilian isn't a language, the nationalistic French speaker will say that all those from Gallo to Walloon are 'only dialects' etc etc. I have my answers prepared ;-)
     
  14. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    I know! I thought so too in the beginning, but then I started learning Portuguese. That thought died out quite quickly! Still love Portuguese!

    robbie
     
  15. betulina Senior Member

    al bressol del basquetbol
    català - Catalunya
    As most of you have stated, there's a big difference between written intelligibility and oral intelligibility.

    As a Catalan, I can read French to understand many words and get the general meaning of a text, but I could not understand much of the same text read aloud. The same would happen for Portuguese. I have never heard Romanian yet, but I think it would be the same case, although it requires more effort in written texts.

    Standard Italian sounds more clear to our ears, as the difference between written and oral language is not so big. However, it only means that we can recognise some more words when speaking.

    As for Occitan, both languages (Occitan and Catalan) are mutually intelligible to a great extent. I can follow a conversation with an Occitan without any of us speaking the other language quite easily.
     
  16. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Coppola's film Bram Stoker's Dracula (actually a misnomer, if you ask me :rolleyes: ) was the best chance I had so far to listen to a substantial amount of Romanian. I could not make out a word if it, either, I'm afraid! :eek: :D
     
  17. gwrthgymdeithasol Senior Member

    English, Wales
    That's OK, it was a few centuries out with the Romanian anyway!
     
  18. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Because they used contemporary Romanian, rather than Renaissance/19th century Romanian?...
    Now, you've made me curious to know how well the actors spoke the language. :)
     
  19. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    Because most of it was probably fake Romanian, or even worse Transylvanian Romanian!!! (I don't even understand what they say). :D Romania has different dialects too and not all are so easy. Have you tried listening to this (press on one of the sound files):

    http://www.romanianvoice.com/poezii/poezii/emotie.php

    Good Luck!

    robbie
     
  20. Etcetera

    Etcetera Senior Member

    St Petersburg, Russia
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    I used to study Latin in my first year at the University, and since then I can understand texts in Italian, if they're not too difficult. :)
     
  21. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Damn, even with the lyrics in front of me, I got lost after three verses! :D
    Still, I'm not very good at understanding song lyrics in any language.
     
  22. BlueWolf

    BlueWolf Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Yeah, I agree, I always find songs harder to understand.
     
  23. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    Sorry, was the only thing I could find. Try an online radio or something like that.

    :) robbie
     
  24. Etcetera

    Etcetera Senior Member

    St Petersburg, Russia
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    "Only dialects"! :rolleyes: Well, I'm currently studying Italian and Piedmontese (and my knowledge of the latter is so far better), and they're so unlike each other that you can't call Piedmontese 'a dialect' of Italian. It's closer to French or rather Provençal.
     
  25. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    :idea: Oh, I get it now! The singer repeats the first two verses. It's the chorus.

    He sings fast!
     
  26. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    That's Romanian for you! We speak quite fast, like the people from Neapoli! :D

    robbie
     
  27. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
  28. gwrthgymdeithasol Senior Member

    English, Wales
    Yes....I think it's funny that they go to all that trouble (and presumably expense) to get 'authentic' language, only to stop well short!
     
  29. riccio Member

    Italia italiano
    Not so much. :) If I'm not wrong they share 82% of lexicon, which seems high but is little compared with 89% of Italian/French and Spanish/Portuguese.
    For example, Spanish has many very common words not resembling the Italian/French corresponding words at all (asino/âne > burro [butter in Italian!]; cane/chien > perro; faccia/face > cara [dear in Italian!]; fratello/frère > hermano; gamba/jambe > pierna; letto/lit > cama...).
    Nevertheless spoken Spanish is more intelligible for us Italians than spoken French and Portuguese (what a puzzle!). :)
     
  30. betulina Senior Member

    al bressol del basquetbol
    català - Catalunya
    Fantastic links, Robbie! Thanks! :)

    And the truth is that I understand why people say that Romanian and Portuguese sound similar now! :D I think they are "softer" than the other Romance languages (at least to my ears) and some of the Romanian sounds I heard in this poem made me think of some Portuguese ones (although I've never learned it, I'm just talking from the outside). Both have a very nice musicality. :)

    Edit - Oh, and I didn't get a word. :( :eek:
     
  31. ronanpoirier

    ronanpoirier Senior Member

    Porto Alegre
    Brazil - Portuguese
    That's fun. I mean. talking about Portuguese, we'd have "asno" and "burro", so we have a word equivalent to the Spanish version and to the French/Italian. About cane/chien we have only "cão". About faccia/face we have "face" and "cara", again, equivalents to the Spanish version and to the French/Italian. And "cara" may also be the adjective "dear" in Portuguese too. About letto/lit, we have "cama" (where we sleep) and "leito", like those in hospitals. At a first sight they don't have difference, but we use them as having different meanings.

    About oral intelligibility:
    I always found spoken Italian easier than Spanish... I don't know why.
    I had one month of French classes and I could understand all the words I knew (of course I studied by myself apart at home) at the French channel.
    I never heard Romanian... but I'm downloading one of those files showed on a previous post.
    I never heard Catalan but I'm sure I'd understand a bunch of it.
    And I'm sure I'd understand like 98% of Galician :) But who knows? I never heard it before...

    About written intelligibility:
    I believe that the Iberian Languages have a bigger degree of written intelligibility than the others. But that's that story: if you know one you can easily understand the other. Example: I just had a little overview on Wikipedia about Catalan, but I understood like 99% of what I saw written in Catalan because of my previous knowledge on French and Spanish. I think the same would happen to someone who's trying to understand Galician and already have some knowledge of Spanish and Portuguese.
    And what about Italian and Romanian? I believe that if you just learn the basic rules of Italian you get it really well. In example: "Frase" and "Frasi". If you don't know that words that end by "e" in Italian make its plural changing it to "i", you'd think those are different words. :) Now, Romanian... that's a different story, but I believe I can understand some.
    About French, knowing English is a big step, in my opinion.
    But the best of all: Latin. Knowing it we can understand really better all the Romance Languages :) Not to meantion cientifical/technical names. :p
     
  32. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    Ooohh, it warms the heart Betulina!:D ;) First nice thing I've heard somebody say about Romanian. Thanks, even if you didn't understand it!
    (it's a poem about time going by, how we get older to finally vanish).

    :) robbie
     
  33. pickypuck Senior Member

    Badajoz, Spanish Extremadura
    Extremaduran Spanish
    asino/âne > asno
    cane/chien > can
    faccia/face > faz
    letto/lit > lecho

    Maybe you find more similarity now ;)

    Gamba also means pierna in the expression "meter la gamba" (= meter la pata). And the adjective of the noun "hermano" is "fraterno", which looks like the French and Italian nouns.

    ¡Olé! :cool:
     
  34. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Pleasantly read! Thank you very much for that link, Robbie. :cool:
     
  35. vince Senior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    English
    How many people (especially those in the cities) understand the lesser known Romance languages? e.g. go to Milano and speak Lombard.

    That is what is meant by "the dialect continuum has collapsed into 5 languages".
     
  36. avalon2004 Senior Member

    Merseyside, England
    UK- English/Spanish
    Native Portuguese speakers probably won't appreciate me saying this (sorry!) but I could clearly understand Portuguese after having studying Spanish to an intermediate level (at least the written forms, the speaking was somewhat harder). The same applies with Italian and Catalan, though maybe less so. French, however, does not sound like any of those languages and therefore it is harder to understand if you simply speak another Romance language. I can pick out a substantial amount of words in Romanian but not enough to qualify for understanding as such.

    Basically, whilst several of the languages are very similar you are unlikely to understand them completely without some degree of study in them, no matter what language you speak.
     
  37. gwrthgymdeithasol Senior Member

    English, Wales
    Absolutely. I've noticed you refer to it in other posts, and have been surprised that no one appears to have shown an interest...
     
  38. gwrthgymdeithasol Senior Member

    English, Wales

    First paragraph: yes, agreed; second: well, you've missed out Romanian, but otherwise, you've listed the 'money' languages, and I can understand why you'd do that, especially if you look at the mass media of the countries those languages are spoken in. But southern Europe has more than its cities, and out in the country, the dialect continuum is still there, albeit frailer than it once was.
     
  39. übermönch

    übermönch Senior Member

    Warum wohne ich bloß in so einem KAFF?
    World - 1.German, 2.Russian, 3.English
    After studying only French and a little Latin, Catalan was easier to understand than, say, Italian or even Spanish. It does look like French - with all that unnescessary letters dropped or fused :D - though I've never heared it spoken. Galician is supposed to be very close to Portugese, as Ronanpoirier already pointed out - disputably it's as "the same language" as Moldavian and Romanian. Another interessting thing is, that the Venetian dialect of Italy is actually from the Spanish branch - just how did it get there?

    well, what else? I also understand almost quite some swearings or other random words in Romansh and Romanian ; through German and Russian, however.
     
  40. riccio Member

    Italia italiano
    Of course, but I was talking about the most common version of the word, the one I heard more often (the frequency may depend on the meaning or not, that's not important).
    We too have 'germano' for 'hermano', ;) with a stricter meaning (son of the same two parents); or the ancient 'magione' for 'maison' ('casa'); or 'parrocchetto' from the French 'perroquet' to refer to a certain species of parrot ('loro').
    Since we are talking about languages of the same family, that's definitely normal. Even the English 'queen' ('reina') is the same of the Swedish 'kvinna' ('mujer').
    But in general I think Spanish is a little more distant from Italian than French. ;)
     
  41. pickypuck Senior Member

    Badajoz, Spanish Extremadura
    Extremaduran Spanish
    Yes, I know :)

    I disagree with this. It is said that French is the most evolved (different) language from Latin and Italian the one which has changed less. The Iberian languages would be between those. Then, Spanish and Italian would be less distant than Italian and French. Anyway I'm not certain if this is true but I can say that you can understand Italian (more or less, of course) without having studied it before. This doesn't happen with French. Well, this is my experience, I know yours is completely different :)

    ¡Olé! :cool:
     
  42. riccio Member

    Italia italiano
    Just one specification. I'm considering similarities under the lexical point of view. Certainly French is the most (and Italian the less) innovative Romance language, but in what sense? Lexical changes from Latin may be shared, especially if you consider that the two countries are near and share a lot of history. ;)

    Un'ultima cosa: ma se simm' tutt'e dduje 'e Napule, pecché parlamm' inglese?
    Voglio dire: in questa sezione del forum non possiamo parlare come ci pare (visto che tanto, come latini, ci capiamo)?
     
  43. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    Si, capisco quasi completamente...ma non capisco la parola "dduje", dal'un Latino al'altro, puoi spiegare?? :D

    :) robbie
     
  44. riccio Member

    Italia italiano
    Doi (2). :D
     
  45. robbie_SWE

    robbie_SWE Senior Member

    Sweden
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    Haha...Grazie o Mulţumesc! :D
     
  46. BlueWolf

    BlueWolf Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Talking about spoken languages it isn't true (you can easily test it).
    You have to remember that since French has a written system that try to keep the similarity between French and Latin, most of the words are pronunced differently than how they are written, so they are inunderstandable for Italians (for example loup is understandable, but it is pronunced [lu], that isn't enough similar to our [lupo]). Moreover French is used to unite two words if the second begins with a vowel.
    Second point, the French verbal system is very different from Italian ones, while Spanish one is very similar. So if you hear a Spanish sentence maybe you won't understand all the words but the verbs are clear and you can have an idea, in French you can only understand (if you're lucky) some words, but since you won't understand the verbs, you'll have understood nothing.
     
  47. vince Senior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    English
    I agree, French does not have a present progressive tense (e.g. "I walk" vs. "I am walking")

    Plus it has truncated the final syllable off many Latin words, whereas Italian/Spanish/Portuguese just changed feminine endings to a and masculine to o. This probably explains why French words are so difficult to understand. Catalan only truncates the final syllable off masculine-type endings, I believe.

    Then there's the conversion of c --> ch
    e.g. cosa (thing) --> cos --> chose

    And stressed e --> oi (pronounced "wa")
    fe (faith) --> foi
    crere (to believe) --> croire
    caer (to fall) --> chaer --> choir [chwar] --> (replacement by tombar)

    Also, disappearance of most verb endings.

    Also, different demonstratives compared to Italian/Spanish (aquest vs. ce)
    also, the use of only one verb "to be": être

    also small words like con vs. avec (though Catalan uses amb)
    poder --> poer --> pover --> pouvoir
     
  48. riccio Member

    Italia italiano
    Scusa un momento, mi esprimo in italiano se no sembra che non riesco a essere chiaro: ho già spiegato che il discorso era limitato al lessico; e ho detto io stesso che è più facile capire lo spagnolo che il francese parlato.
    L'esempio di lupo/loup non mi pare dei migliori, visto che in spagnolo si dice lobo, che in italiano è tutt'altra cosa (addirittura un falso amico hai preso)!
    Quanto al sistema verbale, idem: se permetti mi è più naturale, per parlare di stamattina all'alba, usare il passato prossimo che quello remoto, tanto per fare un esempio.

    Corea del Norte desoyó las peticiones de la Comunidad Internacional y efectuó su primera prueba nuclear esta madrugada.
    I ensure you that it's easier to turn 'essere/stare' into the unique form 'être' than into 'ser/estar', because of the very different cases in which the two verbs are used in Italian and Spanish.
     
  49. BlueWolf

    BlueWolf Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Loup era solo un esempio, la perdita delle finali consonantiche nel parlato è tipica del francese nel suo complesso, pertanto magari molte parole sono simili nello scritto, ma poi a conti fatti nel parlato risultano più comprensibili le versioni (senz'altro meno numerose, ma ancora alte) dello spagnolo.
    Per il sistema verbale, prova a fare questi paragoni:

    je perds - yo perdo - io perdo
    tu perds - tu perdes - tu perdi
    il perd - él perde - egli perde
    nous perdons - nos perdemos - noi perdiamo
    vous perdez - vos perdéis - voi perdete
    ils perdent - ellos perdon - essi perdono

    je aimais - yo amaba - io amavo
    tu aimais - tu amabas - tu amavi
    il aimait - él amaba - egli amava
    nous aimaions - nos amábamos - noi amavamo
    vous aimiez - vos amabais - voi amavate
    ils aimaient - ellos amaban - essi amavano

    Sul discorso del passato remoto e del passato prossimo, qui si sta parlando di intellegibilità, non è importante cosa ti sarebbe più naturale se fossi tu a parlare l'altra lingua. Il passato remoto spagnolo è simile al nostro (che ci è perfettamente comprensibile, visto che, anche se non lo usiamo più nel parlato, lo usiamo ancora nello scritto), mentre il passato prossimo francese mi ha dato dei problemi. Per esempio "elle a + participio passato" (il passato prossimo) è pronunciato "ela + pp", che a noi suona ella (=lei), facendoci perciò perdere la percezione del passato prossimo.
     
  50. riccio Member

    Italia italiano
    Ripeto: sul parlato stiamo dicendo la stessa cosa da un paio d'anni.
    Sono esattamente la stessa cosa nelle tre lingue. Non ho capito perché una desinenza -ez dovrebbe essere più astrusa di una desinenza -éis, a me - lessicalmente, ripeto - interessa la radice. E quella è uguale.
    Sei tu che hai tirato fuori il sistema verbale; comunque, ciò che viene naturale scrivere/dire viene naturale anche leggere/intendere. Imparare una lingua non è accostare struttura a struttura ma pensare in lingua; se il mio modo di pensare corrisponde al tuo la mia comprensione è semplificata.
    E io ho difficoltà a pensare che tu stamattina facesti colazione (rimaniamo nel campo dei puri esempi, ovviamente; mi è anche difficile pensare in francese che vieni di fare colazione, ma non mi va di pesare tutti i possibili casi col bilancino). Ciao ciao. ;)

    Edit: aggiungo una cosa. Secondo me la somiglianza (apparente) tra l'italiano e lo spagnolo penalizza entrambe le lingue. Noialtri andiamo in Spagna senza sapere una parola e chiediamo il burro al ristorante (tipico). Loro: davanti a casa ho un signore argentino che sta qui da cinquant'anni e ancora non ha imparato a tradurre i pronomi complemento (tipico). Forse bisognerebbe prendere maggiore coscienza delle differenze.
     
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