I must admit, when I saw the title of this thread, I got a little excited because I thought it was going to include dentistry terms or translations related to a visit to the dentist. Anyway, I agree with Josh's simplified version of understand the root patterns. Of course, they are not just limited to trilaterals, but also quads, and quints which you'll discover as you go deeper into your studies.Root Extraction? That sounds painful.
Are you sure you didn't mean "generally not part of the root"?The consonants used as roots are:أنتَ مُسي .
OK, I understand what you want. Going back to what I said in my first post there are many common patterns and those patterns that include the extra letters are among those common patterns. Using my English pattern scheme:MarcB, your reply comes close to what I mean. I understand the concept of the root system, it's just that when faced with a given word I'm not sure which letters within it count as the root. For example, words that start with م often don't seem to include this in the root. As you say, dictionaries tend to use the root system, so if you don't know how to do this (simple!?) task you can't look the word up.
A word like استثناء in which the last letter is hamza would only occur when the last root letter is one of the weak letters. So it's just a matter of eliminating the ones that it is not.Example: استثناء, the ا، س، ت، are not part of the root, but the نون and last همزة are; the root is ثنى and the pattern is استفعال, where ث=ف، ن=ع and همزة=ل in place of الف مقصورة.
According to my own experience with Arabic, the better you know the morphological build-up of the verb and (especially) its nominal derivations, the better you’ll come to grips with the idiosyncratic way most Arabic dictionaries are organized.clevermizo said:To be quite honest, when I started learning Arabic I didn't really bother paying attention to roots so much. I just learned words, and learned basics of grammar. After more time and practice, I learned more about roots and then they just started being apparent to me
This is exactly my point. Whether you learn this through the web or through a book – you have to learn it! It can be seen as a prerequisite - like getting used to the 182 plus radicals of Chinese.Abu Bishr said:For one I'd say it is incumbent on the student to master the 10 forms of the verb together with its perfect, imperfect (both in the active and passive voices), imperstive, verbal noun, active participle, passive participle forms. This is knowledge which is presupposed in using Hans Wehr [and most other dictionaries of Arabic!] since he only refers to the additional / augmented forms of the verb by way of Roman numerals, that is, he takes it that you are already familiar with the forms that these numerals symbolise.
The root is أ د و , but I'm not sure how I knew that. I think it could also have been أ د ى or أ د ي .What is the root of أداة and how did you arrive at that?
I don't think so! I think it is trial an error, unfortunately. But it does get easier eventually as you get a feel for the patterns.Is there a better way to find such wacky words in the dictionary than just trial and error?
If the hamza is part of the root, it comes first alphabetically in Hans Wehr, as if it were an alif.How did poor hamza come to deserve such little recognition?
I'm afraid not.Do you know of any magic website where you put in a word and it tells you the root, like a reverse conjugator?
At that point; I recommend you commercial Verbace Pro Arabic-English-Arabic software dictionary due to its affordability and ability to comply -if not all- at least some of your needs. They are distributing one year working limited free versions too; just at the early times of all new years. I hope they will distribute their 2011 free version also after 2 or 3 months.- Still I am using 2008 free version along with 2010 free version. Although; it is not a "Lisan- al-Arab" nor Hans Wehr, even limited free versions are very comprehensive and useful. I could find your word by transcrip it as أداة and اداة even as ادات as well as its conjugated and suffixed form as تاديها . Even أدوات gave me أداة .Do you know of any magic website where you put in a word and it tells you the root, like a reverse conjugator?
(ادو) اداة adāh pl. ادوات adawāt tool; instrument; utensil, implement, device, appliance; apparatus; (gram.) particle | اداة الحكم a. al-ḥukm machinery of government [...]
Yes. Unfortunately, the Hans-Wehr doesn't distinguish between the همزة القطع and همزة الوصل.however without the hamza on the alif.
Using an Arabic, root-based dictionary requires a terrific understanding of the derivation system of Arabic, and as you continue to learn more patterns, your dictionary skills will improve.Is there a better way to find such wacky words in the dictionary than just trial and error?
No no I am not don't worryI think you should avoid getting too excited about the meanings of roots per se.
I totally agree with you, I am actually learning it so to be able to easily identify words roots when reading Arabic texts.So you can really only tell what the root of a word is if you know all the patterns.
This is exactly my intent. If I don't know the meaning of a word I would like to be able to find its translation in the dictionary by searching its root.It's important to be able to recognise the root of a new word just so you can look it up in the dictionary, and it's also useful to recognise the fact that a new word is related to another word you already know.
Yes, the website doesn't explain the morphological analysis process. Nevertheless it's helpful to obtain the root so one can look up the word in a dictionary.thank you for replying. I did register on that website, it is very helpful unfortunately it doesn't give indications on the way we can understand a root of word.
As far as I understand a good knowledge of all the existing patterns is a good strategy.
You're most welcome. aratools.com also seems very helpful.Thank you a lot. It's very interesting !
The middle radical of a hollow verb cannot be inferred on the basis of Form I if the verb has past stem-vowel i and present stem-vowel a (in the active voice).الفعل الأجوف - Hollow verbs (middle radical is ي or و)
The root letters are found in the present tense of the verb. (are there exceptions?)
Simiarly, the final radical of a defective verb cannot be determined on the basis of Form I if the verb has past stem-vowel i and present stem-vowel a (in the active voice).الفعل الناقص - Defective verbs (ending in ي or و)
How do you find them?
Firstly, not all verbs have a verbal noun that exhibits the weak radical explicitly (e.g. VN baqā’). As far as I can judge, there’s no reason to ascribe a particular value (w or y) to the third radical in verbs like baqiya, since whether it were the one or the other, the verb would have the same surface form (in all grammatical forms).So using the verbal noun, I can identify the roots? No exceptions?