Saraiki Sindhi Punjabi: تھیواں

Alfaaz

Senior Member
English
Context: song lyrics
"je meiN tethoN wakhri jeewaaN
qasam khudaa di kaafir theewaaN
zair peyaala hans ke peewaaN"

Questions:

  • What language(s) are thiyaa, theenaa, theewaaN, theeyaaN from and used in?
  • What would thiyaa and theewaaN translate into Urdu or English as?
    • کہلاؤں ? کہا ?
      • If the guess is correct, then what is the difference between theeNRaa/thiyaa , aakhNRaa/aakheyaa , keNRaa/keyaa?
 
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Context: song lyrics
    "je meiN tethoN wakhri jeewaaN
    qasam khudaa di kaafir theewaaN
    zair peyaala hans ke peewaaN"

    Questions:

    • What language(s) are thiyaa, theenaa, theewaaN, theeyaaN from and used in?
    • What would thiyaa and theewaaN translate into Urdu or English as?
      • کہلاؤں ? کہا ?
        • If the guess is correct, then what is the difference between theeNRaa/thiyaa , aakhNRaa/aakheyaa , keNRaa/keyaa?
    My understanding is that this is a variety of Punjabi but my knowledge is n't sufficient to say what the name of that variety is! It could even be Saraiki.

    In the quote, "thiivaaN" would be "ho'uuN" in Urdu (hovaaN in Standard Punjabi)

    I don't know the answer to the first part of your last question (probably honaa/hu'aa) but "aakhNRaa" and "kehNRaa" are verbs (infinitives) whereas "aakhiyaa" and "kehiyaa" are past tense/participles (kahaa in Urdu).

    Should n't the word be "has" and not "hans"?
     
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    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I don't speak Saraiki but I'm pretty sure it is a Saraiki form. On the whole, barring this word, the text is perfectly standard Punjabi (can be that Saraiki is to this extent similar). It doesn't mean ''to say'' but as QP SaaHib says, hovaaN, or even ho jaavaaN.
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    QURESHPOR said:
    but "aakhNRaa" and "kehNRaa" are verbs (infinitives) whereas "aakhiyaa" and "kehiyaa" are past tense/participles (kahaa in Urdu).
    Should n't the word be "has" and not "hans"?
    Thanks for answering; Rephrased question: Is there any difference between aakhNRaa and kehNRaa (as both seem to be translated as kehnaa in Urdu)? probably...
     

    panjabigator

    Senior Member
    Am. English
    I've studied very little Siraiki/Multani, but enough to say that this looks like Siraiki to me. If I am not mistaken, I believe some varieties of PahāRī and Hindko also use this form "thīvāN." I've seen it plenty in Sikh Gurbāni, I might add.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    The same element figures in the past forms in Gujarati, e.g. thai gayo - ho gayaa.
     

    panjabigator

    Senior Member
    Am. English
    Listening to Gujarati music as we speak, and hearing that form plenty :) I wonder if Rajasthani has it too?

    I know I've asked something about this somewhere in the past.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I don't know the answer but I don't think Rajasthani (which?!) has it. I happen to have had maarvaaRii speaking neighbours for some time and I don't recall anything like this.
     

    panjabigator

    Senior Member
    Am. English
    Thanks for this comment, Marrish Sahib. I should have specified which Rajasthani language I meant, or at least said something the qualified (vaguely) that I meant the languages of Rajasthan.

    I wonder if this form is also found in Pothohari. I'll inquire and report.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Thanks for this comment, Marrish Sahib. I should have specified which Rajasthani language I meant, or at least said something the qualified (vaguely) that I meant the languages of Rajasthan.

    I wonder if this form is also found in Pothohari. I'll inquire and report.
    You are welcome, it is just the interesting question that you raised. I hope you are successful in finding it in Pothwaarii.
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I guessed in post # 4:

    Call me "thick", but I am sorry I don't quite understand. Could I please have a straight forward answer to my question. From wherever you have copied this material, was the word? ہنس or ہس ?
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thanks for answering; Rephrased question: Is there any difference between aakhNRaa and kehNRaa (as both seem to be translated as kehnaa in Urdu)? probably...

    It depends which part of the Punjab you are from. In my part "aakhNRaa" is used but only 20 miles way, they use "kehNRaa". Both mean "to say".

    Hiir aakhdii Jogiyaa ch_huuTh aakheN
    kauNR ruThRe yaar manaauNdaa e
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    QURESHPOR said:
    From wherever you have copied this material, was the word? ہنس or ہس ?
    They are lyrics QP SaaHib, from دھرتی لہو منگدی . If you as a Punjabi speaker are suggesting that it is has, then it probably is has! Most seem to use hassda/di, but some also seem to say hansda/di...
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    They are lyrics QP SaaHib, from دھرتی لہو منگدی . If you as a Punjabi speaker are suggesting that it is has, then it probably is has! Most seem to use hassda/di, but some also seem to say hansda/di...

    Yes, it is has and not hans in Punjabi.."chiTTe dand hasaNRuuN na'iiN rahNde, te lokii pai_hRe shak karde!"
     
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