Discussion in 'Cultural Discussions' started by Silvia B, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. Silvia B

    Silvia B Senior Member

    Italy - Italian
    In Italy there is this saying... :

    "Moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi"

    In a few words that means: "Wifes and oxes (hope the plural is correct) of your own country" and so : better to get married with a woman ( or a man as well ) of your same country
    (if someone can give a better translation...thx!! :D )

    Many people say that when there are marriages between people from different countries (sometimes even refer to north and south of the same country!!) in many cases the relationship will end... due to differences between cultures.

    What do you think about that? :rolleyes:
  2. Agnès E.

    Agnès E. Senior Member

    France, French
    Bonjour Silvia,

    The problem sometimes does not come from wife and husband, but from other people (family, relatives, friends, people in the street, at work, etc.) who have a hostile look/point of view on this couple. And this is, in the end, too much pressure for them.
  3. Artrella Banned

    Hello Silvia! I think that it depends on how much different these cultures are.
    There has been a famous case in my country, an Argentinian woman married a
    man form Jordania, a Muslim. They were fine at the beginning but then he took their children away from her, and she couldn't see them any more. Our government had to intervene, but the kids are still with his father.
    In this case the difference between cultures is a very deep one. So any little fight could end in this kind of situations.
  4. VenusEnvy

    VenusEnvy Senior Member

    Maryland, USA
    English, United States
    This earlier thread talks about mixed-culture couples.

    I don't have anything against mixed-culture couples (Gosh, I am in one!). But, I do firmly believe that with so much opposition and ignorance in the world now, their relationship needs to be twice as strong.
  5. te gato

    te gato Senior Member

    Calgary, Alberta
    Alberta--TGE (te gato English)
    I do not think there is anything wrong with having a mixed culture..mixed heritage...mixed country...mixed a little carried away..:D marrage...
    as long as both are willing to understand each others views..but I also agree that it would not be an easy task...outside interference is not an easy thing to have to deal with...but if the two people love each other..they will find a way..Give and take..and understanding...

    te gato;)
  6. Robert Bennie Banned

    Byron Bay Australia
    Australia - Australian
    G'day forum
    The world is interesting and this is a question that had never entered my head. I didn't even know my wife was a 'wog' for about six weeks and then someone told me and I did notice that she was a little unusual but I didn't want to marry me so I married her.

    Life must be stimulating if your neighbours feel able to frown at you because a bloke and his missus do not look or speak the same. My mind just got a cramp.

    Anyone in Australia who tries to interfere in consensual matters between a man and a woman or a man and a man or a woman and a woman is shouted down and told to get out the back and hit yourself with a stick. Now that I think of it I suspect that the offender would face the significant risk of gaol.

    There will always be examples of marriages or unions of any kind failing. We are people and we fail but all people fail equally and the colour of the skin is just that. It is the colour of the skin.

    In winter I am almost white but in summer I am rather dark. What's the difference? My skin colour changed but my heart did not and my mind did not.

    My wife has boring skin. It is always the same colour. She comes from a place where pale skin is handy due to the weather or something like that. The sun has less affect in that area and her skin didn't need as much melanin as mine. I was born in a hot dry place and I need the melanin or my sun would fry me to a crisp.

    I wish I could offer advice about how to handle yourself in your countries but I would love to have the opportunity to have an eyeball to eyeball conversation with any of those who want to frown at darkies marrying whities or whatever it is they say.

    In utter confusion

  7. gaer

    gaer Senior Member

    Fort Lauderdale

    If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, I would say that people in your country are a good bit more open-minded than those in any other country and should be applauded.

    My own opinion, for the record: I can think of nothing more evil than coming between two people who either have or might have a deep, meaningful relationship. Since finding a mate with whom you can share your life is just about the most magical thing that can happen, I think it's equally wonderful if a lasting relationship is formed between a man and a women or two people of the same gender.

    Having said that, it is obvious that people fighting against their own societies and their families have many extra hurdles to overcome. :)

  8. Robert Bennie Banned

    Byron Bay Australia
    Australia - Australian
    G'day gaer
    In Australia it is specifically illegal to discriminate against a person based on ethnic origin or religion or sex or sexual orientation or age and I am happy I live here. I suspect that intollerance is a symptom of fear.

    I pity the poor scared shivvering sods who need to make others feel bad so that they can feel better than us.

  9. gaer

    gaer Senior Member

    Fort Lauderdale
    It's fascinating to me that Australia, if I have my facts correct, started out as a country of people England wanted to get rid of.

    It's my understanding that the US started in much the same way. But we took a different path, and it is only during the latter part of the 20th century and moving into the 21st that we have started to catch up.

    Frankly, I think fear is at the root of almost all forms of hate.

    Having said all this, I would get the impression from your post that Australia is a country with no problems of discrimination. My natural doubting nature makes me ask if your people are so much kinder just because you appear to have more idealistic laws. :)


  10. Robert Bennie Banned

    Byron Bay Australia
    Australia - Australian
    G'day gaer
    It is my understanding that during colonisation the immigrants to Australia were considered to be the dregs from English prison hulks and beggars transported for stealing a loaf of bread or whatever other folderol the ruling classes decided to employ to rid themselves of the evidence of the errors in their civic planning. It was considered frightfully uncouth to have to keep stepping over the useless starving litle blighters on the way to tea and cucumber sandwiches before another spiffing round of croquet.

    I had alway thought that the colonisation of America began with a group who made their own way to America because they rejected the religious mores of The Old Dart. I did not think that forced transportation to America predated the abysmal horror of the slave trade.

    It is hard for me to imagine any form of hate that is not based on fear.

    Aussie is a pretty good place to live but it is far from perfect and the cities are rapidly benefiting from all the advantages of cramming too many rats into too small a cage.

    The laws in Australia are relatively uniform so I am safe there but my comments about the social aspects of the joint relate to the non metropolitan areas. There are enclaves of specific ethnic groups in Sydney. Gang violence is starting. Some areas are such they are considered no go zones if you are from the 'wrong' ethnic group.

    That bit gets me. People come to Aussie to get away from intollerance and bigotry and then some bring it with them and start screaming at each other that five hundred years ago your grandfather spat at my grandfather so now I am going to kill you. Man I am impressed with that. How long do people want to hold a grudge. And who is sure after so many years which way the spit travelled. I guess some people are I don't know what.

    In those areas I suppose that 'mixed' unions are frowned upon by the high and mighty sure that they know the real path to nirvana. I suspect that they may be in for a bit of a shock if they are ever called to account. If I was God I'm not sure if I would want to be stuck with a mob of bigots and zealots for eternity.

    Aussies are probably no kinder or less kind than the Inuit or Bushmen or Poms. we are a product of our environment. There are none so strange as folk.

    In my opinion geography is critical to the social matrix relating to fear. A society in constant fear of attack by belligerant neighbours wastes vast quantities of goods and young people to keep the barbarians from the gate and the struggle appears to be endless because as soon as you drive one foe back from the front there is another mob out the back so it is a constant cycle of war and conquest.

    We've never had to waste too much effort to protect our gate since it runs all the way around the place and is in places kilometres deep. The most effective moat in the world and we didn't even have to dig it. We have never been seriously threatened so we are not scared of a non existant threat.

    Our laws reflect our convict heritage. The memory of the lash and the chain is too recent and as a people we despise malfesance. The progeny of the convict has taken over and we seem to be able to manage.

    Some people irritate me and I was troubled some time ago regarding a reported horror in Sydney. It was so sad and I could not understand how people could act that badly and I felt some form of social guilt because I was genetically related to that creature. I felt a little better to read that the gene pool has been stirred up so much here that on a genetic level I am just as likely to be as closely related to my neighbour as I am to a person from anywhere else in the world. That did help a little.

    We are all the same and if the baby is well treated then the resulting parent will treat their baby just as well and the opposite is sadly also the case.

    We all make our own bed

  11. yolanda_van huyck Senior Member

    i'm Spanish, my usband is from Belgium; we got married last year. Well, i can still remember "nice suggestions" coming from my own family like "with all the men there are in Spain, why the f**k you have to marry one from another country", or "so young, you married someone from another country; i'd understand if you were old and you didn't find anyone, then it'd be normal"... and what a show when they knew i met him on the internet "he is a psycopath"... after they met him, everything changed, they realised a passport is not a problem, and that feelings are what really count. We are not from very distant countries, but we have a lot of difference, and these differences just made my life "richer".

  12. Silvia B

    Silvia B Senior Member

    Italy - Italian
    Sorry, but the thread did not start to talk about racism.. actually, it is not what italians mean with that saying... it is more or less what Yolanda said.
    Problems due to cultural differences.
    In my opinion.. well, I do believe that a relationship between a man and a woman of different countries can make both lifes "richer".. also for possible sons and daughters.. They could learn two different point of views..and have a opened mind...
    It's great..
    But I also think that it can be very hard sometimes...
  13. Словеса Senior Member

    I would pay attention to the 'buoi' part. I think that the proverb is going to say it's just more handy to live and build life with objects that are similar to what you already have experience with... Difficult to disagree. ;)
    Proverbs, like any other wisdom, don't give ultimate knowledge on how to do things. What they offer are only some useful lines of thought that you may apply or not apply in any particular case, combining these lines with other ideas; functional knowledge, not ultimate knowledge. This line is certainly useful.
  14. rhitagawr

    rhitagawr Senior Member

    British English
    Did you mean 'oxen', Silvia? I don't want to get married. And even if I did, I wouldn't marry anyone from outside north-western Europe or the so-called Anglo-Saxon countries. I wouldn't marry a religious person. Even within my own country, I wouldn't marry anyone who didn't share my values or who came from a different ethnic background. It's not because some people are 'better' than others. It's because of a (possible) culture clash.
  15. Hulalessar

    Hulalessar Senior Member

    English - England
    If Cupid's dart strikes all the above will go by the board.

    Apart from that, not all so-called Anglo-Saxon countries share the same culture.
  16. rhitagawr

    rhitagawr Senior Member

    British English
    1) I doubt it, but you never know.
    2) I agree. The United Kingdom is more like Germany, for example, than it's like the USA.
  17. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungarian - Hungary
    In my reading, the saying may refer to that vague uncomfortable feeling you can have when you are in a situation where your "good old" reflexes, pre-learnt, automatic answers (etc.) won't or can't work. (I.e. you may have to change your approach to things, the way of formulating ideas to be understood exactly as you wish which can be uncomfortable, or can be a bother but it depends always on the persons involved.)
    So why take this extra discomfort when you'll have plenty of other problems to cope with (in the course of your everyday life inevitably)?

    It seems to be a popular wisdom that may work even today for some but I think most of us are passed worrying about these sort of things. (In a world when you have to learn so many things that previously specialised people used to do exclusively, or with the fast change of technology you have to learn so many new things everyday, it is almost "routine" to be faced with "yet another thing to learn"... So our whole behaviour has gone through some changes ever since this saying was created.) From this point of view, I think the saying may well be a bit out of date.

    Personally, in terms of human relationships, I can see a great advantage in engaging into a completely new "set up" for those who are not afraid of challenge because it helps to realize to what extent our reflexes are just relfexes and nothing more. It helps to see how relative things are. Also if you are obliged to have a look at things from another angle, it may help realizing that other people may be right, too... (For some, it's quite an advantage!:D) Although if one is disposed to look for that sort of thing, one can find it anywhere...:)
  18. Sepia Senior Member

    High German/Danish
    I would say, people are always very good at finding excuses for the realtionship having not worked or not working well.

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