scordare vs dimenticare

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  • FreedomITA

    New Member
    Italy Italian
    Same meaning. They have a different etymology .
    Scordare from latin. S: ex , out of ; Cor: mind
    Dimenticare from latin too. Demens : without mind.

    Dimenticare is most commonly used.
    Scordare is poetic imo!
     

    virgilio

    Senior Member
    English UK
    FreedomITA,
    You wrote: "Same meaning. They have a different etymology .
    Scordare from latin. S: ex , out of ; Cor: mind
    Dimenticare from latin too. Demens : without mind.

    Con permesso una piccola correzzione: cor (latino) . cuore (italiano)
    e un'altra:
    Hai scritto:" Dimenticare from latin too. Demens : without mind".
    Non sono d'accordo. L'aggettivo latino "demens" vuol dire "pazzo matto". Secondo la mia etimologia "dimenticare" deriva dal prefisso latino "dis" e il sostantivo latino "mente".
    Mi pare probabile che in qualche periodo del passato questo verbo sia stato scritto "dismenticare" e coll'andar di tempo svanendo la "s", la "i" si sia prolungata.
    Quindi per un inglese "dimenticarsi di qualcosa "vuol dire "to unmind oneself of something, (that is, "to forget something").
    Having forgotten it we may have to remind ourselves of it later.
    Mi interesserebbe molto sapere, se un gentile lettore avesse letto in alcun libro d'italiano antiquo il verbo "dismenticare".
    Grazie
    Virgilio
     

    FreedomITA

    New Member
    Italy Italian
    No no forse mi sono spiegato male. Io come ho scritto non ho tradotto le due parole (perche audia le conosceva gia) ma stavo proprio studiando le due parole dal punto di vista etimologico; non il significato vero e proprio dei due verbi. Le sue origini e la loro composizione. In questo caso cor è la traslazione di mente, proprio per questo motivo ho deciso di evidenziarlo come corrispoettivo a cor.
    Stesso discorso per dimenticare, dimentare , fare uscire di mente. Audia conosceva il termine per questo motivo ho descritto l'etimologia che non è il significato delle parole, quindi same meaning (quello che conoscie audia cioè forget) ;)
    Per quanto riguarda "dismenticare" questo verbo in una delle quattro orazioni pronunciate da Cicerone a Catilina , volgarizzato. Significa qui trascurarsi. Cmq stesso significato anche qui :)
     

    federicoft

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Mi interesserebbe molto sapere, se un gentile lettore avesse letto in alcun libro d'italiano antiquo il verbo "dismenticare".
    Grazie
    Virgilio

    I'm sure I had.
    According to my dictionary (Garzanti), dismenticare is an obsolete spelling of dimenticare.
     

    audia

    Senior Member
    USA,English
    The etomology(although interesting) of the two were actually secondary to my interest in the resgister or regonal use. Is one used more poetically and one more colloquially or is it diferentiated regionally? My impression at the moment from films is that it is used more in SI. Vero?
     

    awanzi

    Senior Member
    Italy, Italian
    I (as usual...) have an other opinion to add.

    Scordare: it is an action that you do consciously (like to forget a hurting love).
    Dimenticare: you simply forget, just meccanically, without even thinking about it (like you forget math stuff).

    Hope this help
     

    audia

    Senior Member
    USA,English
    Thanks Awanzi, I thought there was some difference. So one is more active and the other passive? And there is not a more educated or more colloquial implication?
     

    federicoft

    Senior Member
    Italian
    I (as usual...) have an other opinion to add.

    Scordare: it is an action that you do consciously (like to forget a hurting love).
    Dimenticare: you simply forget, just meccanically, without even thinking about it (like you forget math stuff).

    Hope this help

    But also dimenticare can fit well the first meaning.
    Maybe scordare is a bit more passionate/poetic/pathetic, isn't it...
     

    lsp

    Senior Member
    NY
    US, English
    Si usa correntemente, comunque tra scordare e dimenticare una piccola (mica tanto!) sfumatura di significato c'è: qualcosa che hai scordato non è più nel tuo cuore, qualcosa che hai dimenticato non è più nella tua mente.
    (Io ci faccio attenzione, non so gli altri...)

    Is currently used, by the way there's a small (as if!) nuance of meaning: something you had scordato is no more in your heart, something you had dimenticato is no more in your mind.
    (I pay attention to it, I don't know if others do...)

    I thought Frenko's contribution was interesting, from a previous thread on the same topic.
     

    virgilio

    Senior Member
    English UK
    fredericoft,
    Grazie tante. Lo sospettavo così. Ti ringrazio della confermazione.

    Much obliged
    Virgilio
     

    virgilio

    Senior Member
    English UK
    FreedomITA,
    Mi trovo un po' confuso da quello che hai scritto. Ad esempio, "stavo proprio studiando le due parole dal punto di vista etimologico. non il significato vero e proprio dei due verbi. Le sue origini e la loro composizione" Questo lo facevamo tutt'e due, non ti pare?
    Ma hai aggiunto:"In questo caso cor è la traslazione di mente". Ma tutt'e due sappiamo che nel latino "cor, cordis 3(n)" vuol dire "cuore" - organo del corpo. Dicendo che "cor è la traslazione di mente" l'hai interpretata.
    Non impugno la tua interpretazione ma soltanto mi domando se la tua etimologia sia corretta.
    Nell'etimologia si tratta della storia della parole e la storia del "cord" del verbo "scordare" non può che essere la parola latina che è diventata tramite uno sviluppo chiarissimo la parola italiana "cuore".
    Cosa ne pensi?

    Best wishes
    Virgilio
     

    FreedomITA

    New Member
    Italy Italian
    Be il cuore per i latini era la sede della mente, della memoria. La S come detto sta per ex (fuori di, da) quindi scordare inteso come fuori dal cuore (cor inteso non come organo) , fuori dalla mente.
    Non so se è una mia interpretazione (sbagliata o meno) pero non vedo altro motivo della parola cuore in questo contesto.
     

    awanzi

    Senior Member
    Italy, Italian
    Thanks Awanzi, I thought there was some difference. So one is more active and the other passive? Let's say so.
    But don't forget that you can have a passive form for both of them (but this is not your question...)

    And there is not a more educated or more colloquial implication? Not that I can think about. They are both on the same level (of education) as they have this slightly different meaning. (You could use the uncommon verb "obnubilare" but this does not really mean "forget"...)

    You're welcome anytime! (Si può dire così???)
     

    gabrigabri

    Senior Member
    Italian, Italy (Torino)
    FreedomITA,
    You wrote: "Same meaning. They have a different etymology .
    Scordare from latin. S: ex , out of ; Cor: mind
    Dimenticare from latin too. Demens : without mind.

    Con permesso una piccola correzzione: cor (latino) . cuore (italiano)
    e un'altra:
    Hai scritto:" Dimenticare from latin too. Demens : without mind".
    Non sono d'accordo. L'aggettivo latino "demens" vuol dire "pazzo matto". Secondo la mia etimologia "dimenticare" deriva dal prefisso latino "dis" e il sostantivo latino "mente".
    Mi pare probabile che in qualche periodo del passato questo verbo sia stato scritto "dismenticare" e coll'andar di tempo svanendo la "s", la "i" si sia prolungata.
    Quindi per un inglese "dimenticarsi di qualcosa "vuol dire "to unmind oneself of something, (that is, "to forget something").
    Having forgotten it we may have to remind ourselves of it later.
    Mi interesserebbe molto sapere, se un gentile lettore avesse letto in qualche libro d'italiano antico il verbo "dismenticare".
    Grazie
    Virgilio

    Significano lo stesso e vengono usate (da me) in egual modo!
     

    tvoltagg

    New Member
    USA English
    My Sicilian father always used to say that Scordare (from cuore-the heart) meant to forget "from the heart" (deeper and more emotional act) and dimenticare (from mentis - the mind) meant to forget from the mind (something less emotional and more a forgetfulness of thought). He always used it as an example of how rich the italian language is.
     

    MünchnerFax

    Senior Member
    Italian, Italy
    Well, your Sicilian father gave an absolutely correct etymological explanation. However, rest assured that this nuance doesn't exist in modern Italian and the two verbs are used interchangeably. :)
     

    joanvillafane

    Senior Member
    U.S. English
    NEW QUESTION:

    I've followed all the threads on scordare/dimenticare - very interesting about the etymology, usage, etc. My question is when I do a search for phrases with "non la/lo scorderò mai" I find VERY VERY few results. Is it not used like this in the future? I'm writing about a vacation and I'd like to use "scordare" with my Sicilian penpals. (We write in Italian but this is a word I've heard a lot.)
    THANKS
     

    debboa

    Senior Member
    Italia, Italiano
    The usage of "non la/lo scorderò mai" is perfecty correct in Italian! In my opinion it's not much used in the future not for a linguistic matter but because ....you could never say if in the future your heart (or you mind!) will preserve the memory of your vacation! But if you are sure you'll never forget it.... write either "non la scorderò mai" or "non la dimenticherò mai", and it will be perfect! :)
     

    Alessandrino

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    NEW QUESTION:

    I've followed all the threads on scordare/dimenticare - very interesting about the etymology, usage, etc.
    For the sake of posterity, there's also misleading information in this thread:

    I (as usual...) have an other opinion to add.

    Scordare: it is an action that you do consciously (like to forget a hurting love).
    Dimenticare: you simply forget, just meccanically, without even thinking about it (like you forget math stuff).

    Hope this help
    All due respect, but this is simply not true:

    D: Ti sei ricordato di fare la lavatrice?
    R: Accidenti! L'ho scordato/Mi sono scordato!

    There's no difference whatsoever as to the "degree of intentionality".

    If I may add something, my opinion is that scordare is not always the best choice when it comes to "people":

    D: Pensi ancora a Daniela?
    R: Ormai l'ho dimenticata.

    In the example above scordata might sound a bit odd. I'd like to know what other native speakers think about it.

    As regards your question, Joan, I think it might just depend on how Google works, 'cause I get about 75,000 results for both "non la scorderò mai" and "non lo scorderò mai".
     

    Rival

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    The way this was explained to me --

    When I forget information -- dimenticare
    When I forget things (I forgot my keys at home) -- scordare

    Do modern Italians agree with that ?
    .
     

    Alessandrino

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    The way this was explained to me --

    When I forget information -- dimenticare
    When I forget things (I forgot my keys at home) -- scordare

    Do modern Italians agree with that ?
    .
    No! In this case too there's no difference whatsoever:

    Forgetting information:
    D: Ti ricordi cosa ha detto Gianni prima di andarsene?
    R: Mi sa che l'ho dimenticato/scordato.

    Forgetting things:
    D: Non trovo le chiavi della macchina, per caso le ho date a te?
    R: No. Come al solito, le avrai dimenticate/scordate/lasciate a casa.
     

    Rival

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    Thank you. I actually said "Ho dimenticato il mio telefonino a casa" and I was told that 'dimenticato' was the incorrect verb, and that I should use 'scordato' in that sense !! I'm happy to learn that my "'correctors"' were not correct themselves. :).
    .
     

    Alessandrino

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Thank you. I actually said "Ho dimenticato il mio telefonino a casa" and I was told that 'dimenticato' was the incorrect verb, and that I should use 'scordato' in that sense !! I'm happy to learn that my "'correctors"' were not correct themselves. :).
    .
    Please, tell me that your "corrector" wasn't a native speaker!
     

    Rival

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    My "correctors" were a group of about four or five native speakers !

    I wonder if this could be a regional thing (similar to 'cascare = fall' in certain dialects, but not in correct Italian).
    .
     

    Alessandrino

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    My "correctors" were a group of about four or five native speakers !

    I wonder if this could be a regional thing (similar to 'cascare = fall' in certain dialects, but not in correct Italian).
    .
    Argh! Cascare does mean to fall in standard Italian. You can look it up in any dictionary. Its usage varies across the regions, but only in terms of "popularity". I rarely use it, but that doesn't make it incorrect.
     

    Rival

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    I didn't want to discuss 'cascare' in this thread -- we'd probably be declared 'off-topic' -- I just used it as an example of regional use varying from standard use -- could 'dimenticare/scordare' be subject to similar regional peculiarity ?
    .
     
    I didn't want to discuss 'cascare' in this thread -- we'd probably be declared 'off-topic' -- I just used it as an example of regional use varying from standard use -- could 'dimenticare/scordare' be subject to similar regional peculiarity ?
    .

    I use dimenticare much more than scordare, however they do mean the same thing and I've never heard anyone claim the opposite.
     

    Alessandrino

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    I didn't want to discuss 'cascare' in this thread -- we'd probably be declared 'off-topic' -- I just used it as an example of regional use varying from standard use -- could 'dimenticare/scordare' be subject to similar regional peculiarity ?
    .
    I'm inclined to say so, but I'd like to hear other opinions as well [Paul posted his message in the meantime]. It should be pointed out, however, that these "regional preferences" don't make a word incorrect, providing that the word is standard Italian. Both scordare and dimenticare, just like cadere and cascare, are standard Italian and are perfect synoyms (well, "perfect" synonyms don't exist by definition, but that's a whole other story).
     

    SScarpe

    Member
    English
    My Sicilian father always used to say that Scordare (from cuore-the heart) meant to forget "from the heart" (deeper and more emotional act) and dimenticare (from mentis - the mind) meant to forget from the mind (something less emotional and more a forgetfulness of thought). He always used it as an example of how rich the italian language is.
    Interessante... Spiegazione molto semplice. Tuttavia, così disponibile. This is exactly what I was looking for. Grazie.
     
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