Se está calentando

elpregunto

Senior Member
UK english
Help Please.

Alaska, considerado uno de los "termómetros"del cambio climático en la planeta. se está calentando
con gran rapidez, ha explicado la botánica.

Mi Intento.

Alaska, considered as one of the thermometers of climate change, is heating rapidly explained
the botanist.

Does using Estarse before calentando add anything to the meaning?

Gracias
 
  • Ferrol

    Senior Member
    Spanish.España
    Es correcta tu traducción.Se dice así con el reflexivo"se", para expresar cuando algo aumenta su temperatura.Sin él "está calentando" exigiría un complemento y la oración cambiaría de sentido.Alaska estaría "calentando algo" (absurdo). Espero haberme sabido explicar
     

    Aviador

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Chile
    ... Does using Estarse before calentando add anything to the meaning?...
    That pronoun se belongs to calentar: calentarse. Spanish is very flexible about the position different parts in a sentence can take. In periphrasis with pronominal verbs, the pronoun that agrees with the subject can appear attached to the main verb or the auxiliary verb: Se está calentando = Está calentándose.
    The pronominal form of a verb can be used to express a different meaning than the transitive form: Estoy calentando la comida (transitive use with comida as direct object). El planeta está calentándose (the planet is getting warmer, without any explicit or implied subject alien to the one experiencing the heating).
     
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    Cerros de Úbeda

    Senior Member
    UK
    Spanish - Spain (Galicia)
    Los pronombres reflexivos (me, te, se; nos, os, se) sirven para indicar que la acción que indica el verbo recae sobre el propio sujeto (es decir, que lo que hace el sujeto, 'se lo hace' a sí mismo; p. ej., 'me afeito', 'me alegro', etc).

    Aquí, el pronombre reflexivo 'se' indica que el planeta se calienta 'a sí mismo' (= 'por sí mismo', o 'en sí mismo' - sea por causas naturales o humanas). Es decir, indica que la acción del calentamiento recae sobre sí mismo, no sobre otro objeto u entidad.

    El proceso del calentamiento 'lo sufre él mismo', no otro.
     

    S.V.

    Senior Member
    Español, México
    Most of these verbs talk about a change of state and often work as get + ADJ or similar constructions.

    Se enfrió. It got cold. Se calentó. It got hot. Se salió. It got out. Se metió. It got in. Se subió. It got up. Se bajó. It got down.

    It's mostly how Spanish builds verbs that don't need objects ("intransitive"). Portuguese/Galician use that se less, for example.

    Also with fall: Se durmió. He fell asleep. Se cayó. He fell down. And often it's used to "hide" who did the action. So if a child breaks something, he might say "se quebró" (it broke instead of I broke it) or someone who burnt some food, "se quemaron los huevos" (the eggs got burnt! instead of I burnt the eggs). And then in "Se me quemaron los huevos", it's like they died on me.
     

    Cerros de Úbeda

    Senior Member
    UK
    Spanish - Spain (Galicia)
    Most of these verbs talk about a change of state and often work as get + ADJ or similar constructions.

    Se enfrió. It got cold. Se calentó. It got hot. Se salió. It got out. Se metió. It got in. Se subió. It got up. Se bajó. It got down.

    Very interesting... Very much to the point.

    This 'change of state' that you mention is characteristic of the 'inchoative verbs' ('to become', 'to turn into', 'to go (+ adj)', etc; plus, those ending in -en ('darken'), -ify ('purify'), etc), which indicate the beginning of an action.


    (*) Yahoo Search
    - Inchoative

    Denoting an aspect of a verb expressing the beginning of an action, typically one occurring of its own accord. In many English verbs, inchoative uses alternate systematically with causative uses.

    inchoative meaning - Yahoo Search Results


    (*) Wikipedia
    - Inchoative verbs

    "An inchoative verb, sometimes called an "inceptive" verb, shows a process of beginning or becoming. (...)

    The suffix survives in English as -en, and is still somewhat productive although there are other suffixes such as -ify which compete with it. However, verbs with this suffix are now primarily ergatives, and also have a causative sense ("to cause to become") when used transitively."

    Inchoative verb - Wikipedia


    It's worth noting that they are often used in the present continuous, a verbal form that also relates to a progressive change of state - and, sure enough, is the one used in our example - 'se está calentando'.


    I was thinking before that this 'calentarse' was not a real 'reflexive', that the concept of the 'reflexive' was not enough to explain it, as the planet doesn't 'heat itself', but rather 'gets heated' by external causes. (I also thought it curious how English uses both forms alternatively with this 'active / passive' alternation, with American English allowing for a more common use of the form 'to heat' for the passive...).

    Rather, it was a case halfway between the reflexive and the impersonal... Your comment has made it much clearer.


    And often it's used to "hide" who did the action. So if a child breaks something, he might say "se quebró" (it broke instead of I broke it) or someone who burnt some food, "se quemaron los huevos" (the eggs got burnt! instead of I burnt the eggs). And then in "Se me quemaron los huevos", it's like they died on me.
    However, this second case that you mention is the 'impersonal se', which is a different case. Here, I think the 'impersonal' sense is much stronger, maybe linked to the fact that here that inchoative sense that you mentioned doesn't take part; 'it broke' refers to a momentary, sudden fact, not a gradual process of change.


    Portuguese/Galician use that se less, for example.
    What does this have to do with Spanish, not to mention English...? :confused:

    Every time a Spanish pronoun is discussed, up pops a reference to how they are used in Galician... Has it somehow become a reference for the use of Spanish without me noticing? :eek::thumbsdown::p
     
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    S.V.

    Senior Member
    Español, México
    Oh, ¿no sería se quemaron ellos, nos quemamos nosotros, te me quemaste tú?

    Ja, sí. :p Mencionaba el portugués y el gallego porque lo leí una vez acá en la j, luego busqué una lista con muchos ejemplos y recuerdo que incluso varía entre Brasil y Portugal. Creo que ayuda a entender que solo es una forma diferente de construir lo mismo.

    Oh, lo de "cambio de estado" también lo leí aquí. Sí es curioso. También el contraste con get y las demás que mencionas.

    Ah, precisamente en este hilo Babosadas preguntaba sobre la relación con el se reflexivo. Sí sería interesante conocer más.
     
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    Cerros de Úbeda

    Senior Member
    UK
    Spanish - Spain (Galicia)
    Oh, ¿no sería se quemaron ellos, nos quemamos nosotros, te me quemaste tú?
    En este ejemplo, que normalmente se explica muy simplísticamente como un reflexivo, lo que es, en realidad, es una impersonal; es un uso del pronombre reflexivo con sentido impersonal - 'se quemaron / nos quemamos a nosotros mismos', accidentalmente, no intencionadamente.

    Es un uso de la reflexiva con sentido pasivo, no activo - el sujeto recibe la acción que indica el verbo, pero no es el 'sujeto activo', sino pasivo.


    En el último caso, con 'te me quemaste', hay un dativo de interés ('me'), que sirve para enfatizar, y para marcar una relación de asociación; en este caso puede indicar 'interés' (es decir, lamentar el hecho - su mujer, o alguien con quien tenga relación), o 'agencia' (es decir, ser el sujeto de la acción; 'te quemé yo...'), mezclada de 'interés (mostrando pena, o disculpándose).
     
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    Agró

    Senior Member
    Spanish-Navarre
    Si "calentarse" fuera reflexivo (y no pronominal, como sí es), ya tendríamos resuelto el problema de la generación de energía: cosas que se calientan a sí mismas.
    Menudo chollo.
     
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