se le ha caído un guante

magnus98

Senior Member
English
Would someone please explain this sentence to me:

oiga, se le ha caído un guante. I know what it means-- Excuse me, you have dropped a glove.

What I can't figure out it the meaning of the pronouns se & le. Is "se" passive usage, and "le" an indirect object? I have seen this usage (se le) before and it has always baffled me. The le is in the position where the D.O. would normally be, and the se is not, as far as I can tell, not leísmo usage

Thanks for the help.

 
  • Alificacion

    Senior Member
    Spain - Spanish
    "Se" in this case is not passive ussage.

    "Caer" is sometimes used as a "verbo pronominal", which means it is preceded by a pronoun. So, when I say "I fell" or "I fell down", in Spanish it is common to say "Me caí". If you fell, "Te caíste". And in third person, if "He fell" or "It fell", it would be "Se cayó".

    So, the glove fell: se cayó, and as it belonged to the man, he is the indirect object, thus se le cayó (there is no direct object, as the verb "caerse" is intransitive).

    Hope I've explained it well... ¡Saludos!
     

    Alificacion

    Senior Member
    Spain - Spanish
    "Le" is definitely an IO, because you cannot "fall" something; it is an intransitive verb.

    But "Se" cannot be the passive form, because if it were, there would be a way of reverting it to the active form.
    Examples:
    "esta pieza se pone aquí" = "tú pones esta pieza aquí".
    "Se dice que has vuelto" = "Ellos dicen que has vuelto", "La gente dice que has vuelto", etc.

    There is no way of reverting "Se ha caído" to an active form. It is just the pronoun linked to a pronominal verb such as "caerse". That's why, when searching the WR dictionary, you will find "caer" and "caerse" listed separately.

    ¡Saludos!
     

    aztlaniano

    Senior Member
    English (Aztlán, US sector)
    It's like when you say "the car broke down on me" or "our dog got pregnant on us".
    The car or the dog are the subjects, but what they did somehow affects or involves the speaker.
     

    magnus98

    Senior Member
    English
    So you are saying? se is reflective, meaning "the glove itself fell", and le is an I.O. meaning from you.
    Then the whole sentence means: The glove fell itself from you. And the le could be either from you, you all, him, or her.
    Correcto?
     

    aztlaniano

    Senior Member
    English (Aztlán, US sector)
    So you are saying? se is reflective, meaning "the glove itself fell", and le is an I.O. meaning from you.
    Then the whole sentence means: The glove fell itself from you. And the le could be either from you, you all, him, or her.
    Correcto?
    Right, a "pronominal", verb, except that "le" is singular, so it could be "usted" (or him or her), but not "ustedes" (or them), which would be "les".
    Se me cayó, se te cayó, se nos cayó ...
    I dropped, you dropped, we dropped
     
    Last edited:

    Pitt

    Senior Member
    German

    Se le caído un guante.


    se = compononte del verbo pronominal caerse
    le = complemento indirecto
    un guante = sujeto

    Otro ejemplo:
    Se me ha roto la pierna.
    se = componente del verbo pronominal romperse
    me = complemento indirecto
    la pierna = sujeto

    Un saludo
     

    pmaka06

    Senior Member
    From what I understand, if I were to say, rompió la mesa - he broke the table - this transitive construction would indicate that the act was purposeful. Now, if I say, se le rompió la mesa, this would mean that he broke the table accidentally. First of all, is this correct?

    Second, in the poster's example, 'le' is the indirect object. I have learned that 'a él/ella is obligatory. Please clarify if this rule only applies to transitive cases. I imagine that that is the case.
     

    ulises1288

    New Member
    Español
    From what I understand, if I were to say, rompió la mesa - he broke the table - this transitive construction would indicate that the act was purposeful. Now, if I say, se le rompió la mesa, this would mean that he broke the table accidentally. First of all, is this correct?

    Second, in the poster's example, 'le' is the indirect object. I have learned that 'a él/ella is obligatory. Please clarify if this rule only applies to transitive cases. I imagine that that is the case.
    1) It is correct in general. But it is possible to say : " él rompió la mesa por accidente"
    2) In this case "LE" doesn´t refer to "él" o "ella" but "Usted". "Usted" is very formal
    You = "Tú" or "Usted"

    With "Tú" : Oye, se te ha caído un guante.
    With "Usted" : Oiga, se le ha caído un guante.

    for issues of grammar "Usted" is treated as if it were 3° person, in general.
     

    RicardoElAbogado

    Senior Member
    American English
    Second, in the poster's example, 'le' is the indirect object. I have learned that 'a él/ella is obligatory. Please clarify if this rule only applies to transitive cases. I imagine that that is the case.
    I believe you have the rule backwards. The "le" is mandatory in some cases. The a él or a ella or a usted are not grammatically required.
     

    Alificacion

    Senior Member
    Spain - Spanish
    Now, if I say, se le rompió la mesa, this would mean that he broke the table accidentally. First of all, is this correct?
    It may mean that, but it may also mean that his table was broken (the le means that it was his), either with or without his intervention, or even when the speaker doesn't know how it was broken.
     
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