segui ad amar, e spera

poru_piazu

Member
australia, english
this italian is difficult to ranslate, could someone help me please:

segui ad amar, e spera,
grata finor son io,
cangiar si puo desio,
mi puoi piacere ancor,

thank you P.
 
  • Leopold

    Senior Member
    es-ES
    poru_piazu said:
    this italian is difficult to ranslate, could someone help me please:

    segui ad amar, e spera,
    grata finor son io,
    cangiar si puo desio,
    mi puoi piacere ancor,

    thank you P.
    continue loving, and wait,
    i'm grateful by now,
    the desire can be changed,
    still i can like you

    Moreless. It's "old" poetic Italian.

    L.
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    She says:
    continue to love, and hope
    I'm grateful so far
    It's possible to change desire
    I can still like you
     

    poru_piazu

    Member
    australia, english
    It's me again, I have been working off a really bad english translation of an italian libretto, can someone help me with this italian, thank you P.

    bella sorge la speranza lusinghiera nel mio seno,
    ne fallace,
    o menzognera piu la crede il fido cor,
    gia la calma io spero all' alma,
    io spero all' alma, ne funesta, ria tempesta,
    rinova il mio timor,
    piu rinova il mio dolor

    thank you, P.
     

    Leopold

    Senior Member
    es-ES
    poru_piazu said:
    It's me again, I have been working off a really bad english translation of an italian libretto, can someone help me with this italian, thank you P.

    bella sorge la speranza lusinghiera nel mio seno,
    ne fallace,
    o menzognera piu la crede il fido cor,
    gia la calma io spero all' alma,
    io spero all' alma, ne funesta, ria tempesta,
    rinova il mio timor,
    piu rinova il mio dolor

    thank you, P.
    the flattering hope rises in my chest/breast,
    neither false,
    nor liar more is trusted by the faithdul (?) heart,
    in calm i hope the soul (?)
    i hope the soul (?), neither pernicious, ??? storm,
    renews my fear,
    more renews my pain.

    I don't quite understand the original. But i hope this helps.

    L.
     

    David

    Banned
    Is this a possibility? I am not sure that I understand the two English translations given previously. Is it from Ariodante? Does this make sense?

    Continue to love and to hope:
    I am thankful that at last
    Thou canst alter (my) desire,
    That I can find thee pleasing...
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    David said:
    Continue to love and to hope:
    I am thankful that at last
    Thou canst alter (my) desire,
    That I can find thee pleasing...
    This is not what she says. This totally changes the meaning.
     

    Alfry

    Senior Member
    Italian
    poru_piazu said:
    It's me again, I have been working off a really bad english translation of an italian libretto, can someone help me with this italian, thank you P.

    bella sorge la speranza lusinghiera nel mio seno,
    ne fallace,
    o menzognera piu la crede il fido cor,
    gia la calma io spero all' alma,
    io spero all' alma, ne funesta, ria tempesta,
    rinova il mio timor,
    piu rinova il mio dolor

    thank you, P.
    bella sorge la speranza lusinghiera nel mio seno,
    ne fallace,
    o menzognera piu la crede il fido cor,
    gia la calma io spero all' alma,

    the flattering hope rises in my breast,
    neither false,
    nor liar is supposed to be by the faithful heart anymore,
    I hope my soul will reach the calm

    this piece of poetry is very difficult to understand so I try but I'm not sure of that


    io spero all' alma, ne funesta, ria tempesta,
    rinova il mio timor,
    piu rinova il mio dolor

    I hope that for my soul, neither pernicious, (ria ???) storm,
    renews my fear,
    more renews my sorrow.
     

    David

    Banned
    Silvia, it may be that my feeble attempt changes the meaning. But it least it has a meaning. What you wrote is not English, and neither is Leopoldo´s translation. I want to understand, but can´t. "I´m grateful so far it´s possible to change desire" is gibberish. "I´m grateful by now..." makes even less sense. You may understand the Italian; in fact I am sure you do. But the poor lady in Australia wants to know what it means in English so she can understand what she is singing. Instead of putting everybody down all the time, learn enough English to make good translations.
     

    Alfry

    Senior Member
    Italian
    David said:
    But the poor lady in Australia wants to know what it means in English so she can understand what she is singing.
    I can assure you that it is really difficult even for an Italian.
    It's written in a very archaic Italian (ria is a word I never heard, for instance.)

    In that case to make the sense clearer and to preserve the poetic form is really challenging.

    we, all of us, are trying to help each other.
    let's try to work together.
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    poru_piazu said:
    bella sorge la speranza lusinghiera nel mio seno,
    né fallace,
    o menzognera più la crede il fido cor,
    già la calma io spero all'alma,
    io spero all'alma, né funesta, ria tempesta,
    rinnova il mio timor,
    più rinnova il mio dolor
    First of all, I have to point out that I couldn't check the Italian text, so I hope you reported it here properly. Also, no author is specified for this opera (anonymous), which is enough to believe that more than one person put their hands to it.

    So now I will try to render it in Italian, this is just my own interpretation:
    La lusinghiera speranza sorge bella nel mio seno
    il fido cuore non pensa più sia fallace né falsa
    auguro calma alla mia anima
    auguro all'anima
    nemmeno una funesta, cattiva tempesta rinnova il mio timor
    come non rinnova il mio dolor.

    In English (please correct my mistakes):
    The flattering hope rises beautiful in my breast,
    the devoted heart no more believes the hope is deceptive nor false
    I wish my soul peace
    I wish the soul
    not even a disastrous, evil storm will renew my fear
    nor it will renew my pain.
     

    David

    Banned
    silviap said:
    This is not what she says. This totally changes the meaning.
    Then explain the true meaning. That´s what working together means. Or admit, God forbid! "I understand it in my own language, but I can´t translate it into yours." We as linguists understand that problem very well. But don´t insist that your translation is the correct one when it makes no sense.
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    David said:
    Silvia, it may be that my feeble attempt changes the meaning. But it least it has a meaning. What you wrote is not English, and neither is Leopoldo´s translation. I want to understand, but can´t. "I´m grateful so far it´s possible to change desire" is gibberish. "I´m grateful by now..." makes even less sense. You may understand the Italian; in fact I am sure you do. But the poor lady in Australia wants to know what it means in English so she can understand what she is singing. Instead of putting everybody down all the time, learn enough English to make good translations.
    David, don't get upset if I say the meaning has totally changed. I'm sorry if my English is not good enough, but I'm here to learn. Instead of pointing the finger at me, you can either help us or just skip this thread.
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    David said:
    Then explain the true meaning. That´s what working together means. Or admit, God forbid! "I understand it in my own language, but I can´t translate it into yours." We as linguists understand that problem very well. But don´t insist that your translation is the correct one when it makes no sense.
    I'd never claim my translation is the correct translation. I don't know why you're thinking of me this way.
     

    Alfry

    Senior Member
    Italian
    silviap said:
    I'd never claim my translation is the correct translation. I don't know why you're thinking of me this way.
    Nooooo, I think of you this way. You cannot disintegrate one of the things I take for granted.

    è come dirmi che babbo natale non esiste
    non ci posso credereeeeee :D
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    David let me explain now. This woman is addressing some man, who is probably in love with her. Basically, she says: keep trying with me, don't give up, I might change my mind about you, who knows, and I might like you in spite of all, as for now I'm thankful. However, the whole speech is poetic, like in most songs, and words don't have to make sense at all costs or being in the right order to please us.

    Take this sonnet for instance:

    A dark plume fetch me from yon blasted yew,
    Perched on whose top the Danish Raven croaks;
    Aloft, the imperial Bird of Rome invokes
    Departed ages, shedding where he flew
    Loose fragments of wild wailing, that bestrew
    The clouds and thrill the chambers of the rocks;
    And into silence hush the timorous flocks,
    That, calmly couching while the nightly dew
    Moistened each fleece, beneath the twinkling stars
    Slept amid that lone Camp on Hardknot's height,
    Whose Guardians bent the knee to Jove and Mars:
    Or, near that mystic Round of Druid frame
    Tardily sinking by its proper weight
    Deep into patient Earth, from whose smooth breast it came!

    Continue to love and to hope - here she says: continue to love, and hope.
    I am thankful that at last - nothing happens at last
    Thou canst alter (my) desire, - she didn't say he can alter her desire, she might change her mind or she might not
    That I can find thee pleasing... - she doesn't find him pleasing, also I might find you pleasing but I don't like you, since you're not my kind, does that make any sense?
     

    Leopold

    Senior Member
    es-ES
    silviap said:
    David, don't get upset if I say the meaning has totally changed. I'm sorry if my English is not good enough, but I'm here to learn. Instead of pointing the finger at me, you can either help us or just skip this thread.
    I agree with silviap. We're trying to help. No one pays us to perform a perfect translation. Maybe there are some professional translators around here, but most of us are just trying to help each other. Languages are a complicated issue and the opinion of a single person, usually, means nearly nothing, unless you want to miss the big picture.

    L.
     

    danalto

    Senior Member
    Italy - Italian
    David, I really don't understand why you got so upset. :confused:
    Our friends are just trying to help, we are not in school, here! ;)
    I really appreciate the time and efforts that our friends spend in this forum.
    I have been working with your language for years, every day of my life, but I am not a linguist at all, so coming here was like discovering a new world, and I have been learning new things every day, thanks to your help!

    So, let me tell you that I really would appreciate if you'll calm down and get in the spirit of this Forum! :)

    cioa
    daniela
     
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