Serbo-Croatian, Bosnian : ustumaran

harakiri

Senior Member
Japanese
In "Na drini ćuprija", we find the word "ustumaran". Well, I don't find this word... How should I understand it? Hvala!
 
  • LookSharp

    Member
    Italian
    Difficult one this, I can't recall it from the top of my head. If you give us the sentence where it occurs, it might clear it up
     

    harakiri

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Plevljak je bio ustumaran, zemljane boje u licu i crvenih očiju. Ni sada nije mogao da izdrži Abidagin plameni pogled. :)

    I checked the word "maran". As for ustu-, no idea, but it mostly mean "unstable" or something like that, since Plevljak was actually mentally unstable under the pressure of Abidaga.
     

    LookSharp

    Member
    Italian
    I would guess "fretful". I see online mentions of the term within the Serbian standard, whereas the Croatian dictionary doesn't list it. It is likely to be strictly Serbian - also given the authorship.
    Fretful fits inside the context. I remember the character very well :)
     

    harakiri

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Well, what I tried by myself was to find some other phrase with this word.

    Arhimandrita Jovana (Krestjankina) prvi put sam video 1982. godine, kad sam došao u Pskovsko-Pečorski manastir. Tada, rekao bih, nije na mene ostavio naročit utisak: jedan jako dobrodušan starčić, vrlo krepak (u to vreme bile su mu samo sedamdeset dve godine), jednako nešto užurban, čak ustumaran, uvek okružen gomilom hodočasnika. Drugi žitelji manastira delovali su znatno strože, asketskije, čak i dostojanstvenije.

    Google shows it as "weary"... Or maybe "distressed" is more suitable... I feel so.

    The word "fretful" is... Yes, a kinda prototype related to "inat".

    Well, I'm not sure if here "fretful" fits in the context. Plevljak was under the pressure because of Abidaga. Abidaga had often said, "— Slušaj ti, ako ne bude sve kako treba i ako me obrukaš pred svetom, ne izlaz'te mi pred oči ni ti ni ovaj ciganski brabonjak; potopiću vas u Drinu, kao slepu štenad." especially against Plevljak. After all, Plevljak went crazy and broken. If he had been under the control of the normal boss, he would have worked only normally. In the story, Plevljak is not described as a potentially crazy man. From the text, if we try to find his "inat", at most his patience... He had not run away from his position. However, such patience sounds something different from "inat".

    No idea... Maybe "ustu" is from Russian "усталый"? "усталый" + "maran" may sound suitable in this context more. Or do I misunderstand something?
     

    LookSharp

    Member
    Italian
    I really don't know. Fretful seemed coherent with the rest. I don't see the combination with Russian that you ponder
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    усталый is from у- and стать, it doesn't have any connection with "ustumaran". Even if it had, we would have trouble explaining the -u- in ustu-.
     

    harakiri

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    As for "усталый", I get it. Sometimes no info in the dictionary, the Internet. Well, but what does "ustu-" mean? "u-" means "away", making the perfect form, etc.

    I was wondering for a while. I'm not even an English native. I asked one about the word "fretful". It may be often used even for some small thing to touch the nerve a bit, but which is possible to forget even immediately, but not only. I thought that it was a strong word... So it's suitable. I get it. Hvala. :)

    In the Japanese translation of "Plevljak je bio ustumaran" in "Na Drini ćuprija", it says "プレヴリヤクはあちこち走り始めた (Plevljak started running around.)" Does it describe "fretful"? Actually possible, but not quite well. The translator wondered how to translate it, and ran into the allegory mostly. "気が立っていた" is more suitable. "気が立つ" = "気" (attention, feeling) + "が (a postpositional particle to make a subject)" + "立つ (stand)". It sounds not calm, nervous, it may include some bad temper, etc. More suitable, but this word doesn't have any color as well as "fretful". How about "ustumaran"? It's not often used, I suppose. Interesting. :)

    Hvala! :)
     
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    LookSharp

    Member
    Italian
    Ustumaran is indeed a rare word. But I'm cheered at the idea of Ivo Andrić being translated into Japanese. The idea of his tale of Eastern Bosnia reaching Japan is fascinating :)
     

    Anemona61

    Senior Member
    Serbian, Serbia
    The verb is "ustumarati se", something like "to become agitated", "pace up and down (nervously)". I don't use normally that word (it became obsolete), but if someone is "ustumaran", I immagine someone agitated, upset, nervous, irritated who is pacing up and down.
     
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    harakiri

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Well, we have translated books, but the problem is the quality of translation. Some of the translations was from German. But as for "Travnička hronika" we need to throw its translation into the garbage box. Some Japanese diplomat translated it from the original, but I am quite sure that he threw it to some local worker. And partly he tried translating even by himself. If he had totally thrown things to the local, it would have been better... XD Our academic scholars seem lazy. orz

    At this moment, I enjoy translating some of his books partly. It's quite possible to translate things better than before. :) When I was in Belgrade in 2003, I could not imagine this latest IT progress. Even if I nearly forget Serbo-Croatian, still I can enjoy reading things. Online Dictionary (Wiktionary) and others help us much.

    Still some of the good writers are unknown in Japan. So it may be a good idea to translate. ;-)))

    "Ustumarati se"... One old dictionary is possible to check online. Now I see it.
    ustumarati se, v. 1. see: uskomešati se; 2. to run in all directions

    In the Japanese translation of "Na Drini Cuprija", the translator picked up the phrase "to run in all directions" simply as it is. However, it looks odd. Now we see better translations. :)

    Hvala!
     

    LookSharp

    Member
    Italian
    OH, it suddenly occurs to me!
    Now that you mention that dictionary entry you found, I suddenly realised it cannot be other than a compounded version of tumarati, which HJP gives as "ići bez određena cilja; bazati, lutati". So ustumarati/ustumariti is the form indicating that the action has advanced/is advancing. The translation you found is correct.

    I just couldn't think straight :)
     

    Anemona61

    Senior Member
    Serbian, Serbia
    Now that you mention that dictionary entry you found, I suddenly realised it cannot be other than a compounded version of tumarati, which HJP gives as "ići bez određena cilja; bazati, lutati". So ustumarati/ustumariti is the form indicating that the action has advanced/is advancing.
    I just couldn't think straight :)
    Yes, but the meaning of "tumarati" is slightly different, you don't need to be agitated. When you are "ustumaran" you are nervous, anxious, you can't just wait sitting still, you need to move, pace up and down. You know the feeling. :) The event you expect, you wait for can also be pleasant.
     

    harakiri

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Yes, and if translating it in another language, we have to think how it sounds in each language more. We may tend to accept what is written as it is. As Mr. Anemona61 says, it's more about the mental issue. So I picked up "気が立っていた". :)
     

    LookSharp

    Member
    Italian
    Yes, but the meaning of "tumarati" is slightly different, you don't need to be agitated. When you are "ustumaran" you are nervous, anxious, you can't just wait sitting still, you need to move, pace up and down. You know the feeling. :) The event you expect, you wait for can also be pleasant.
    Yeah, I think you're right :)
     

    Anemona61

    Senior Member
    Serbian, Serbia
    You have nothing to be sorry for. :cool:
    By the way, I am impressed by your Serbian language skills. :thumbsup:
     
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