Share/Ratio of X in/to Y?

englishjasmin

Senior Member
Slavic
Is it correct to say "Share of X in Y" or "Share of X to Y"? "Ratio of X to Y" or "Ratio of X in Y"?

Examples:

The share of loans in total assets is 20%.
The share of loans to total assets is 20%.

The ratio of loans to total assets is 20%.
The ratio of loans in total assets is 20%.
 
  • dukaine

    Senior Member
    English - American
    "X to Y" is appropriate for ratio. Any kind of side-by-side comparison would use "X to Y". I'm not sure what the proper thing to say would be with "share". I'm not in finance, so I don't know what "share" means in this context. Again, if this is a comparison, "to" would be the way to go.
     
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    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    The ratio of "X to Y" is presented as the value of X "to" the value of Y - e.g., "4 to 1".
    I wouldn't understand a statement like "The ratio of X to Y is 20%" because it is ambiguous, at the very least!
     

    englishjasmin

    Senior Member
    Slavic
    The ratio of loans to total assets is 20%. This means total assets are 100 and loans are 20.

    However, not sure with share of loans in total assets is 20%. Or share of loans to total assets is 20%. I had it as share of loans in total assets and my boss changed it to share of loans in total assets.

    Now I am confused.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    It appears to be only the finance world that uses these terms this way.
    The wiki on asset based loans has this to say
    Asset based lenders typically limit the loans to a 50% or 65% loan to value ratio or "LTV". For example: If the appraisal is valued at $1,000,000.00 a lender might lend between $500,000.00 and $650,000.00.
    You will need to find someone who speaks this foreign (to me) language - I don't even know if you are considering a loan as a type of asset (do you owe someone or do they owe you when you use this term?)!

    In mathematics (and, I suspect, the rest of the world that uses mathematics) a ratio is never a percentage
     

    englishjasmin

    Senior Member
    Slavic
    Ok lets speak about something more familiar:

    The ratio of blond children to/in total number of children has declined.
    The share of blond children to/in total number of children has declined.

    In our city, the share of pensioners to/in total population has been rising since 1990s.
    In our city, the ratio of pensioners to/in total population has been rising since 1990s.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    We don't use ratio in this way outside of that financial jargon.

    Depending on the context and prior words, even the phrase in parentheses might be left out.

    The proportion of blond children (in the total number of children) has declined.

    In our city, the proportion of pensioners (in the total population) has been rising since 1990s.

    The ratio of the width to the height of an HDTV picture has been fixed at 16 to 9. (This is often written as 16:9)

    The final gear ratio in the transmission is 3:1.
     

    englishjasmin

    Senior Member
    Slavic
    Now you are close to answering my question.

    The proportion of blond children (in the total number of children) has declined.
    In our city, the proportion of pensioners (in the total population) has been rising since 1990s.
    --> So in this context "in" is better than "to", right?


    The ratio of the width to the height of an HDTV picture has been fixed at 16 to 9.
    The final gear ratio in the transmission is 3:1.
    --> In this context both "in" and "to" could be used? Or only "in" or only "to"?
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Now you are close to answering my question.

    The proportion of blond children (in the total number of children) has declined.
    In our city, the proportion of pensioners (in the total population) has been rising since 1990s.
    --> So in this context "in" is better than "to", right?


    The ratio of the width to the height of an HDTV picture has been fixed at 16 to 9.
    The final gear ratio in the transmission is 3:1.
    --> In this context both "in" and "to" could be used? Or only "in" or only "to"?
    Now you are close to asking the right question - originally you wanted to use ratio differently (with a percentage).
    Proportions are X in Y (e.g., of the total).

    A ratio is X to Y.

    This in tells us where the gears are and has nothing to do with the expression of ratios. The ratio of X (turns in the crankshaft) to Y (the number of turns in the drive axle) is 3 to 1.
     
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    englishjasmin

    Senior Member
    Slavic
    So a share would also go with "in" and not with "to" right? The share of pensioners in total population (not to total population), right?

    The situation is a bit more complex in a research report, it looks a bit like this:

    "The ratio of pensioners (P) to total population (T) will be further denoted as the P/T ratio. Figure 1 shows that the the P/T ratio is rising since the 1990s, which means than the share of pensioners in total population gradually increased."

    I hope I got the "to" and "in" right this time?
     

    englishjasmin

    Senior Member
    Slavic
    How about his usage:

    A ratio of women to men.
    A share of women in total population.

    One goes with to the other with in. I think the ratio of women to men, can never be said as share of women in men. However, the share of woman in total population, could also be said as the ratio of woman to total population. Thus, does share only go with "in" and ration only with "to"?
     

    Pertinax

    Senior Member
    BrE->AuE
    How about his usage:

    A ratio of women to men.
    A share of women in total population.

    One goes with to the other with in. I think the ratio of women to men, can never be said as share of women in men. However, the share of woman in total population, could also be said as the ratio of woman to total population. Thus, does share only go with "in" and ration only with "to"?
    That sounds all right to me. You can say:
    America has a higher share of women in the population than England.
    America has a higher ratio of women to men than England.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    America has a higher share of women in the population than England.

    Sorry, but I don't use the word "share" that way - it has the following connotations for me:

    America has more than its fair share of women.

    share1
    ▶noun
    • 1 a part or portion of a larger amount which is divided among or contributed by a number of people. ■ any of the equal parts into which a company's capital is divided.
      ■ part-ownership of property.

    • 2 the allotted or due amount of something expected to be had or done. ■ a contribution to something.
    I would use proportion or fraction for this particular usage.

    America has a higher ratio of women to men than England.

    That's a very clear and precise way of stating a mathematical assertion. (I dunno if it's true or not, but that's not relevant :D )
     

    Pertinax

    Senior Member
    BrE->AuE
    If we are talking numbers then I also much prefer the precise term "ratio" to the loose term "share".

    I use "share of" mainly for something that's being shared. I can have a share of money, a share of the loot, a share of a company.

    Nevertheless "share of women in the population" scores 184000 hits in Google, e.g.:
    The share of women in the population also increases significantly with age.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    If we are talking numbers then I also much prefer the precise term "ratio" to the loose term "share".

    I use "share of" mainly for something that's being shared. I can have a share of money, a share of the loot, a share of a company.

    Nevertheless "share of women in the population" scores 184000 hits in Google, e.g.:
    The share of women in the population also increases significantly with age.
    My number was 184,000 for that string but the last page shows
    In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 66 already displayed.
    That may be the biggest ratio of "number of hits" to "number displayed" I've seen in Google numbers like that :D

    Yes, the term "share" is used by others, but I don't like it either.
     
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