She decided to prove it to him

The Inquisitive One

Senior Member
Persian
Hola a todos,

¿Se puede expresar “She decided to prove it to him” poniendo el complemento indirecto y directo antes de la forma conjugada “resolvió” o después y pegado al infinitivo?

“Se lo resolvió demostrar”

o

“Resolvió demostrárselo”

Mil gracias de antemano y muchos saludos 🙏
 
  • Ferrol

    Senior Member
    Spanish España
    La primera es incorrecta
    “Decidió demostrárselo”
    “Resolvió” es correcto pero menos usado por donde vivo
     

    Cenzontle

    Senior Member
    English, U.S.
    That placement of the object pronouns before the conjugated verb
    applies only to a limited set of "helping" verbs, which includes querer, poder, and deber,
    but not to resolver or decidir.
    "Se
    lo quiere demostrar", "Se lo puede demostrar", "Se lo debe demostrar".
    Perhaps Ferrol can confirm if I have stated this correctly.
     

    The Inquisitive One

    Senior Member
    Persian
    ¡Esta información la saqué de un libro de gramática! ¡A ver si alguien concuerda con esto!


    Shifitng = the suffixed object pronoun is shifted leftwards when the infinitive depends on a preceding verb.

    • When shifting is acceptable, both the suffixed and the shifted forms are equally acceptable in spoken Spanish.

    • The suffixed forms are everywhere considered rather more literary and are preferred in formal written styles.


    • In Spain, both the suffixed and the shifted constructions seem to occur with about equal frequency in ordinary speech.

    • Latin-American speech strongly prefers the shifted forms.
    Nota de moderadora
    Borrada una lista muy larga de verbos que no contribuye a la consulta original
    Bevj
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Ferrol

    Senior Member
    Spanish España
    That placement of the object pronouns before the conjugated verb
    applies only to a limited set of "helping" verbs, which includes querer, poder, and deber,
    but not to resolver or decidir.
    "Se
    lo quiere demostrar", "Se lo puede demostrar", "Se lo debe demostrar".
    Perhaps Ferrol can confirm if I have stated this correctly.
    Esas tres expresiones son naturales en el contexto apropiado
     

    Alvarolo

    New Member
    Spanish
    That placement of the object pronouns before the conjugated verb
    applies only to a limited set of "helping" verbs, which includes querer, poder, and deber,
    but not to resolver or decidir.
    "Se
    lo quiere demostrar", "Se lo puede demostrar", "Se lo debe demostrar".
    Perhaps Ferrol can confirm if I have stated this correctly.
    Correcto.

    De hecho, si se usa resolver o decidir con el significado "She decided to prove it to him", el "se lo" va al final:

    -Decidió demostrárselo (bien)
    -Se lo decidió demostrar (mal)
    -Resolvió demostrárselo (bien, aunque resolver no se suele usar como sinónimo de decidir salvo en literatura)
    -Se lo quiso demostrar (bien)
    -Quiso demostrárselo (bien)


    Con querer, poder, deber, y otros, pude usarse "se lo" al principio o como sufijo del verbo.
    No funciona con todos los verbos. Creo que no hay una regla, sólo una lista de verbos auxiliares (helpers) que sí lo permiten.


    Funny fact:
    A parte de:
    -Se lo quiso demostrar
    -Quiso demostrárselo
    También se puede poner "se lo" en el medio
    -Quísoselo demostrar :) Gramaticalmente es correcto, pero ya no se usa, sólo se encuentra en libros antiguos o, a lo mejor en poesía o ciertas licencias literarias
     

    James2000

    Senior Member
    English - South Africa
    All this time (10+ years) I've been thinking that it was always possible to have object pronouns precede the conjugated verb in verb sequences that include a conjugated verb and an infinitive or gerund. To be fair, Se lo decidió demostrar sounded bad, but I would have said that it's allowed until I followed this thread.

    Thanks for setting me right.


    For further reading:

    DPD (point 3): pronombres personales átonos | Diccionario panhispánico de dudas


    If you have a few hours and are looking to be even less confident that you know all the rules:

    NGLE: (16.12 and 16.13)
    RAE::NUEVA GRAMÁTICA
    RAE::NUEVA GRAMÁTICA
     

    jmx

    Senior Member
    Spain / Spanish
    Even though grammar books list those verbs for which this "jumping" of the pronouns is possible, and those for which it isn't, I don't think the difference is so clear-cut in real spoken Spanish. "Se lo decidió demostrar" sounds a bit strange, but I wouldn't discard that some native somewhere is saying that ... or even that I have said it myself.
     
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