1. urdustan Member

    Urdu & English

    How did the Arabic shukran evolve into shukriyah in Urdu? I don't think either word is used in Persian.
  2. ancalimon Senior Member

    It's Şükriye in Turkish too. But we also have the name Şükran. Both are old fashioned female given names.
  3. guilaK

    guilaK Member


    I'd to inform you that,the word;motashakkeram Or tashakkor is used in persian,instead.
  4. ancalimon Senior Member

    That's weird. A non-Turkish word being used in a Turkish form in Persian. müteşekkürüm. M : I am
  5. Treaty Senior Member

    It is not a Turkish form. The final am is genuinely Persian, as a first person singular form of verb declension suffix and "to be".
  6. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Do they come from Arabic?
  7. asanga Member

    motashakker-am looks like the active participle of the Arabic form V verb (تَفَعَّلَ) with the Persian 1st person singular of the verb "to be": "I am thankful"; tashakkor is the masdar (verbal noun) of the same verb form. Form V of a verb is usually reflexive and intransitive, so while form I of the verb shakara means "to thank", form V tashakkara means "to be thankful".

    Back to shukriyah, it looks a lot like a feminine nisba shukriyyah of the form I masdar شُكْرٌ . Maybe this was used in accordance with the rule that non-human plurals get feminine singular adjectives? I.e. shukriyyah is short for "[words, tokens, expressions etc.] of thanks". I believe izafe constructions with a plural first member and singular feminine adj. are quite common in Persian: e.g. قرون ماضیه , گناهان کبیرہ. Maybe shukriyah was originally part of an Indo-Persian phrase of this type? Is it ever pronounced with tashdeed?

    In Indonesian, we use the masdar شُكْرٌ (pronounced with an extra vowel because Indonesian doesn't allow consonant clusters like -kr-) with a native prefix: bersyukur. This can be interpreted as a reflexive verb "to be thankful" or an adjective "having thanks".
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
  8. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    šukran is the accusative of šukr “thanks”; mutakkir is a participle “thanking”; šukriyya is the feminine singular of the adjective šukrī “thankful”, but it can be used also as an abstract noun “thankfulness”. All these words are Arabic, but only the first is used to mean “thank you” in Arabic.
  9. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Your post should answer the inquiry posed by OP. I often wondered about shukriyah. Your reply makes it crystal clear. Thank you.
  10. asanga Member

    I thought that the تاء مربوطة of a feminine nisba used as an abstract noun becomes -t in Udru, e.g. علمیت، انسانیت etc. So shouldn't we expect شکریت if it means "thankfulness"?

    Slightly off-topic: in Hindi this abstract noun suffix is pronounced and spelled with a single y, इंसानियत, and I've heard this in Urdu as well (the spelling is of course ambiguous without diacritics). Is this the standard pronunciation in Urdu, or do high registers double the y, -iyyat?
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    First point: Some if not most nouns are with -t, as in muHabbat/maHabbat but there are instances of the noun remaining with -ah ending, e.g iraadat/iraadah

    Second point: Yes, careful speakers do double the -y.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  12. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Great explanations and suggestions with which I can wholeheartedly agree. There is a phrase آدابِ شکریّہ aadaab-e-shukriyyah which I believe gave origin to the stand-alone word shukriyyah.
  13. puddgyballerina

    puddgyballerina New Member

    motashaker in Persian is derived from shakoor, Shakur, shukran, shakriyyah, shukriyyah
  14. urdustan Member

    Urdu & English
    Is shukriyyah "thankfulness" used at all in Persian? For example, is the Urdu phrase aadaab-e-shukriyyah also used in Persian? If not, then this is an example of a word that was adopted directly from Arabic to Urdu without Persian as an intermediary.

    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  15. urdustan Member

    Urdu & English
    I now see that shukriyya/shukriya is not listed in Steingass' comprehensive Indo-Persian dictionary, which points to an Urdu borrowing of the word directly from Arabic.
  16. CyrusSH Senior Member

    Persian - Iran
    I think the suffix -ya has been added in Urdu/Hindi and doesn't relate to neither Arabic, nor Persian. The word shukr is used for "thanks" in Persian too, especially when it is used with the word sepas. (شکر و سپاس)
  17. berndf Moderator

    German (Germany)
    It is a completely regular Arabic derivation pattern for abstract nouns. Even with only minimal knowledge of Arabic (like me) one would intuitively understand its meaning without a moment's hesitation. See #8.
  18. CyrusSH Senior Member

    Persian - Iran
    It doesn't matter Arabic شكرية‏ has a similar meaning or not (that I think not), the important point is that it has double "y" and the last letter is "t", for example about Arabic أهمية (importance) in Persian/Urdu there is "ahammiyyat", not "ahammiya".
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017

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