Si, De, Que

wannalearnstuff

New Member
USA, English
I can't seem to figure out all the meanings and uses of these three words. I had a rather long and detailed question typed with lots of examples but that would not post so I apologize for the vagueness of this question. (I put the nonsensical, literal translations of the statements I did not understand in parentheses)

Si seems to mean "if" yet appears quite a bit in other usages. How does one use it?

De is supposed to mean "of" but is sometimes also used as "if". How does one use "de" in it's alternate usages and is there a rule as to where to put it in the sentence to effect that particular intent?

I have been told that Que means "what" or "that", yet it also appears as "which", even in statements (where in English it makes no sense, as in "for what it stands"?!), and in sentences where it seems to not require a "that" or a "what", such as "Quiero que lo vas" ("I want that you do it") and "Que tengas un buen dia" ("That you have a nice day"). How does one know when to use "que" in odd places like this, and is there a rule as to where to put it to affect different meanings?

I apologize if these seem to be sort of elementary questions, and would sooo appreciate a detailed response :)
 
  • jacinta

    Senior Member
    USA English
    wannalearnstuff said:
    I can't seem to figure out all the meanings and uses of these three words. I had a rather long and detailed question typed with lots of examples but that would not post so I apologize for the vagueness of this question. (I put the nonsensical, literal translations of the statements I did not understand in parentheses)

    Si seems to mean "if" yet appears quite a bit in other usages. How does one use it?

    De is supposed to mean "of" but is sometimes also used as "if". How does one use "de" in it's alternate usages and is there a rule as to where to put it in the sentence to effect that particular intent?

    I have been told that Que means "what" or "that", yet it also appears as "which", even in statements (where in English it makes no sense, as in "for what it stands"?!), and in sentences where it seems to not require a "that" or a "what", such as "Quiero que lo vas" ("I want that you do it") and "Que tengas un buen dia" ("That you have a nice day"). How does one know when to use "que" in odd places like this, and is there a rule as to where to put it to affect different meanings?

    I apologize if these seem to be sort of elementary questions, and would sooo appreciate a detailed response :)
    Hello, wannalearnstuff,

    Your question is not easy to answer. There are too many uses to explain here, I'm afraid. It would take studying the language a little longer to understand all the uses you describe here. I'll only tackle one of them:

    Que tengas un buen día
    Que te vaya bien.

    These are set phrases that are shortened subjunctive sentences. The full sentence would be: Espero que tengas un buen día. I hope (that) you have a good day. Take away the espero and that leaves Que. It's a common greeting.

    If you have specific questions, it would be easier to help you.
     

    wannalearnstuff

    New Member
    USA, English
    ok thanks!

    I guess I will figure the rest out over time... that was the one that was bothering me the most

    also (I'm new to these forums if you hadn't noticed) is it considered proper to preface all post replies with "hello <person you are responding to>"?

    I have some other questions regarding the subjunctive, and specifically what it's for but I will start a new thread for that

    :)
     

    VenusEnvy

    Senior Member
    English, United States
    wannalearnstuff said:
    is it considered proper to preface all post replies with "hello <person you are responding to>"?
    Not necessarily. We try to keep it informal, but polite. :D
    The forum rules/guidlines thread (the first one in thif forum) should offer you some basic rules to follow. Check that out first.

    wannalearn stuff said:
    I havee some other questions regarding the subjunctive, and specifically what it's for but I will start a new thread for that
    Try the search feature in the corner. You can type in "Subjunctive" and find all of the threads with it in the title. There are tons! Give it a try, and come back with any remaining questions. We're here to help.

    Welcome to the forum, WANNA!! :p
     

    jacinta

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Thanks for pointing out the search tool, Venus. And speaking of being polite, I forgot to say, Welcome y Bienvenido to the forum, wannalearn. Please make use of the search tool before you post. You can always ask a question on an existing thread once you read through it. Just because they are from a few weeks or months ago, doesn't mean they are closed to further discussion. Happy languaging!
     

    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    wannalearnstuff said:
    I can't seem to figure out all the meanings and uses of these three words. I had a rather long and detailed question typed with lots of examples but that would not post so I apologize for the vagueness of this question. (I put the nonsensical, literal translations of the statements I did not understand in parentheses)

    Si seems to mean "if" yet appears quite a bit in other usages. How does one use it?
    I can't think of many other values for si, actually (unless you mean ). Could you be thinking of se?

    wannalearnstuff said:
    De is supposed to mean "of" but is sometimes also used as "if". How does one use "de" in it's alternate usages and is there a rule as to where to put it in the sentence to effect that particular intent?
    Translating prepositions is always complicated, because their use varies a great deal between languages. It's better to arm yourself with a dictionary.
    Still, I would risk saying that the most common values of "de" are "of" and "from", sometimes "to".

    wannalearnstuff said:
    I have been told that Que means "what" or "that", yet it also appears as "which", even in statements (where in English it makes no sense, as in "for what it stands"?!), and in sentences where it seems to not require a "that" or a "what", such as "Quiero que lo vas" ("I want that you do it") and "Que tengas un buen dia" ("That you have a nice day"). How does one know when to use "que" in odd places like this, and is there a rule as to where to put it to affect different meanings?
    The word "que" can have all the values you mention, and it can also mean "who".
    As for the sentence "Que tengas un buen dia", it means "Have a nice day". So, what's the "que" for? I like jacinta's explanation: think of it as a short version of "Espero que tengas un buen dia", "I hope (that) you have a nice day".
     

    gotitadeleche

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    Si can sometimes have the meaning of "why" as in: ¿Si pero estás completemente desnuda! = Why, you're completely naked!

    I would like to hear some more examples of si myself, I am still a little uncertain of all its uses.
     

    asm

    Senior Member
    Mexico, Spanish
    I do not understand the sentence ¿Si pero estás completemente desnuda! The si does not fit in there.

    Prepositions do not have meaning, they are to relate different concepts, compare "at" in these sentences: I work at walmart; my class starts at 7 pm, and we are at your service. What is the meaning of "at"? If that happens within languages, what will happen "between" them?

    SI:

    Lo habrias visto si hubieses prestado atencion

    Si te juntas con nosotros vas a aprender el uso del si

    Si no vengo hoy, vendré mañana

    Debes saber si vienes o te vas

    Si yo fuera rico ...

    Si tan sólo el idioma fuera facil, no tendriamos problemas con el si.

    Espero que estos ejemplos sirvan para ilustrar el uso del si; si no fuera asi, házmelo saber
     

    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    asm said:
    Prepositions do not have meaning, they are to relate different concepts, compare "at" in these sentences: I work at walmart; my class starts at 7 pm, and we are at your service. What is the meaning of "at"?
    It indicates location.
    Compare and contrast with "I work for Walmart". Clearly, something changes.
     

    jacinta

    Senior Member
    USA English
    gotitadeleche said:
    Si can sometimes have the meaning of "why" as in: ¿Si pero estás completemente desnuda! = Why, you're completely naked!

    I would like to hear some more examples of si myself, I am still a little uncertain of all its uses.

    To me, this sentence would make more sense written as " pero estás desnuda". But I don't see the translation as Why, you're naked. I guess maybe it could. I would say, "¡Vaya, que estás desnuda! for "Wow! or Why, you're naked!"
     

    asm

    Senior Member
    Mexico, Spanish
    I agree (partially)

    I work in walmart is also location. Prepositions do not have clear meaning, they only relate (location, time, etc.). While a noun or an adjective have meanings, prepositions only help you relate words or concepts.

    ASM
     

    jmx

    Senior Member
    Spain / Spanish
    ¿Si pero estás completemente desnuda! = Why, you're completely naked!
    I think what you intended to write was :

    ¡Pero si estás completemente desnuda! = Why, you're completely naked!
     

    gotitadeleche

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    jmartins said:
    I think what you intended to write was :

    ¡Pero si estás completemente desnuda! = Why, you're completely naked!
    Yes! You are right. I was going by memory and, obviously, got it wrong. But I found the sentence I was thinking of, taken from Selecciones, and it is "¡Mira nada más! ¡Pero si andas en cueros!

    According to my dictionary si can be used to express indignation or surprise and sometimes is not translatable. The example the dictionary gave was (I am going by memory again, so let´s see if I get it right this time...) ¡Pero si te avisé...!
     

    garryknight

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    Apart from in phrases using the subjunctive, most of the examples that use constructions with 'que' will be one of the following four:

    ¿Qué? used at the start of a question, meaning 'what', as in "¿Qué quiere hacer?" ("What do you want to do?"). This always has an accent over the 'e'.

    qué used in a sentence containing an indirect question, also meaning 'what', as you can tell by the fact that it retains the accent: "Le pregunté qué quería decir" ("I asked him what he wanted to do")

    que meaning 'that' (no accent): "Era el único libro que tuve" ("It was the only book that he had")

    lo que meaning "which" or "what": "Díme lo que pasa ayer" ("Tell me what happened yesterday") "Es lo que compré la semana pasada" ("It's the one which I bought last week")

    I hope this helps a little. :)
     

    Narda

    Senior Member
    Guatemala
    Si = yes
    Si = if
    Si que estás...! = you really are...!

    And when a girl wants permission to go out, she puts it at the end of the sentence:

    Papi, puedo salir, si?

    I suppose I am only confusing everyone here.
     

    garryknight

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    And 'sí', which usually means 'yes', is also used for emphasis, as in: "Enrique habla inglés pero tú no lo hablas , ¿verdad?" "¡Yo sí lo hablo!" ("Enrique speaks English, but you don't, do you?" "I do speak it!")
     

    jacinta

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Here's a rule for comparisons using the phrase more than:

    when using more than with numbers, the phrase is más de.
    Ví más de cien pajaros en el cielo ayer.
    Su hijo tiene más de catorce años.

    Any other use of more than will be más que.
    Mi hermano es más grande que yo.
    Aquella mujer es más inteligente que mi profesor.

    Replace más with menos and you will have less than, using the same prepostion.
    Él tiene menos suerte que yo.
    Esta casa tiene menos de cuatro cuartos.
     

    Lancel0t

    Senior Member
    Philippines - Filipino/English
    garryknight said:
    lo que meaning "which" or "what": "Díme lo que pasa ayer" ("Tell me what happened yesterday") "Es lo que compré la semana pasada" ("It's the one which I bought last week")
    How about this phrase "¿Que pasó?" = What happened? this is correct right? But if you are going to say "¿Lo que pasó?" Is this also corect?

    I'm just a little bit confused. Thanks in advance.
     

    jacinta

    Senior Member
    USA English
    ¿Qué pasó? What happened? (Sometimes also, What´s happening?)
    ¿Sabes lo que pasó anoche? Do you know what happened last night?
    Lo que is used as an indefinite pronoun here.
     

    garryknight

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    Lancel0t said:
    How about this phrase "¿Que pasó?" = What happened? this is correct right?
    It would be correct with an accent over the 'e': "¿Qué pasó?". Although you won't always see the accent used in this forum (or elsewhere) as a) some people don't know how to generate them with their keyboard, and b) not everyone remembers to use them. It's not such a big deal as, in print, the '¿' tells you it's a question, and when spoken the tone usually lets you know.

    Lancel0t said:
    But if you are going to say "¿Lo que pasó?" Is this also corect?
    "¿Lo que pasó?" isn't a complete question in itself. It's like asking "That which happened...?". Anyone hearing that is likely to give you a puzzled look and ask something like, "¿Y qué pasó?".
     

    rayb

    Senior Member
    Chile - Spanish
    gotitadeleche said:
    Si can sometimes have the meaning of "why" as in: ¿Si pero estás completemente desnuda! = Why, you're completely naked!

    I would like to hear some more examples of si myself, I am still a little uncertain of all its uses.
    You should clearlu distinguish si and que with and wittout an accent.

    Sí = yes or itself. Examples: "Sí, pero estás completemente desnuda". Or, 2se compró un libro para si"

    Qué = what or why. Examples: ¡Qué, estás completemente desnuda! ¿Por qué estás completemente desnuda?
     

    rayb

    Senior Member
    Chile - Spanish
    Lancel0t said:
    How about this phrase "¿Que pasó?" = What happened? this is correct right? But if you are going to say "¿Lo que pasó?" Is this also corect?

    I'm just a little bit confused. Thanks in advance.
    You should write:"¿Qué pasó?
     

    rayb

    Senior Member
    Chile - Spanish
    garryknight said:
    And 'sí', which usually means 'yes', is also used for emphasis, as in: "Enrique habla inglés pero tú no lo hablas , ¿verdad?" "¡Yo sí lo hablo!" ("Enrique speaks English, but you don't, do you?" "I do speak it!")
    I don't agree, Sí is simply yes. In Spanish, is the only word for yes. Conversely, in French, you have oui and si, si is used when when the question is raised with a negation: tu n'as pas 20 ans?
     

    wannalearnstuff

    New Member
    USA, English
    jacinta said:
    Here's a rule for comparisons using the phrase more than:

    when using more than with numbers, the phrase is más de.
    Ví más de cien pajaros en el cielo ayer.
    Su hijo tiene más de catorce años.

    Any other use of more than will be más que.
    Mi hermano es más grande que yo.
    Aquella mujer es más inteligente que mi profesor.

    Replace más with menos and you will have less than, using the same prepostion.
    Él tiene menos suerte que yo.
    Esta casa tiene menos de cuatro cuartos.
    What about "at least" and "at most" as in "There are at least/at most 200 apples on that table" or "It will take me at least/at most 4 hours to complete" and such statements?

    Would it maybe be "no menos que"(at least/no less than)/"no más que"(no more than/at most)?

    Also, as to the sentance which was discussed for a while earlier in the thread, "Si, pero estás desnuda" (Why, you're naked), what purpose is the "pero" serving in that sentance? and the "si" for that matter? shouldn't it say "Porque, estás desnuda"? I'd sure love some clarification on what all those words are doing in there :)
     

    rayb

    Senior Member
    Chile - Spanish
    wannalearnstuff said:
    What about "at least" and "at most" as in "There are at least/at most 200 apples on that table" or "It will take me at least/at most 4 hours to complete" and such statements.

    Also, as to the sentance which was discussed for a while earlier in the thread, "Si, pero estás desnuda" (Why, you're naked), what purpose is the "pero" serving in that sentance? and the "si" for that matter? shouldn't it say "Porque, estás desnuda"? I'd sure love some clarification on what all those words are doing in there :)
    ¿Por qué estás desnuda? = Why are you naked?

    Porque estás desnuda = It's because you are nacked
     

    gotitadeleche

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    Also, as to the sentance which was discussed for a while earlier in the thread, "Si, pero estás desnuda" (Why, you're naked), what purpose is the "pero" serving in that sentance? and the "si" for that matter? shouldn't it say "Porque, estás desnuda"? I'd sure love some clarification on what all those words are doing in there
    Wannalearnstuff, go back to threads #12 and #13 where you will see that I got the order of the words incorrect. It should have been "Pero si estás desnuda." Not all words can be translated directly from one language to another. In this case the situation was that a little girl had just taken a bath and came running out of the bathroom with no clothes on. Her mother saw her and exclaimed with surprise "Why, you´re naked!" The si adds a sense of surprise (in this case) or indignation as in "Pero si te avisé..." (I warned you...)
     

    gotitadeleche

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    wannalearnstuff said:
    What about "at least" and "at most" as in "There are at least/at most 200 apples on that table" or "It will take me at least/at most 4 hours to complete" and such statements?

    Would it maybe be "no menos que"(at least/no less than)/"no más que"(no more than/at most)?

    Also, as to the sentance which was discussed for a while earlier in the thread, "Si, pero estás desnuda" (Why, you're naked), what purpose is the "pero" serving in that sentance? and the "si" for that matter? shouldn't it say "Porque, estás desnuda"? I'd sure love some clarification on what all those words are doing in there :)
    Porque = because
    ¿Por qué? = why? only when you are asking the question "why," not when you are using "why" to indicate surprise.
     

    rayb

    Senior Member
    Chile - Spanish
    gotitadeleche said:
    Porque = because
    ¿Por qué? = why? only when you are asking the question "why," not when you are using "why" to indicate surprise.
    To indicate surprise you have to use ponctuation: ¡!. If not, the reader will not understand.

    In this case, ¡Por qué, estás desnuda! = Why, you are nacked!

    Regards
     

    garryknight

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    rayb said:
    I don't agree, Sí is simply yes.
    I'm not sure what you're not agreeing with. I agree with you that sí is simply yes. However, sí is used for emphasis; I just didn't give a very good example. Just to clear it up, and for the benefit of wannalearnstuff, here's the relevant section on this subject from A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish:


    , which means 'yes', and si, which usually means 'if', can both also be used as intensifiers.

    (with an accent) is used to assert a fact that the speaker thinks has been contradicted, or doubted, or for purposes of contrast: - María no vendrá. - Sí que vendrá. Me lo prometió. 'Maria won't come.' 'She will come. She promised me', una respuesta que esta vez sí me irritó 'a reply that did annoy me this time', entonces me entró cierta impaciencia por conocer un país que sí pudo llevar a su cabo su cambio (M. Benedetti, Ur., dialogue) 'then I felt a certain impatience to get to know a country that actually did complete its process of change'.

    Si (no accent) is often used as an intensifier in spoken language, usually preceded by pero. It emphasizes the following statement, often with an indignant or insistent tone, ¡(pero) si te oí la primera vez! 'but I heard you the first time!!' pero si vivimos muy bien. No necesitamos nada (Soledad Puértolas, Sp., dialogue) 'but we really do live well. We don't need anything', pero si mañana me voy al Perú y no vuelvo más (A. Bryce Echenique, Pe., dialogue; Sp. a Perú) 'but tomorrow I'm going to Peru and I'm not coming back'.


    I hope this makes clearer what I meant by 'sí used for emphasis', and I hope it's of more help to wannalearnstuff.

     

    rayb

    Senior Member
    Chile - Spanish
    garryknight said:
    I'm not sure what you're not agreeing with. I agree with you that sí is simply yes. However, sí is used for emphasis; I just didn't give a very good example. Just to clear it up, and for the benefit of wannalearnstuff, here's the relevant section on this subject from A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish:


    , which means 'yes', and si, which usually means 'if', can both also be used as intensifiers.

    (with an accent) is used to assert a fact that the speaker thinks has been contradicted, or doubted, or for purposes of contrast: - María no vendrá. - Sí que vendrá. Me lo prometió. 'Maria won't come.' 'She will come. She promised me', una respuesta que esta vez sí me irritó 'a reply that did annoy me this time', entonces me entró cierta impaciencia por conocer un país que sí pudo llevar a su cabo su cambio (M. Benedetti, Ur., dialogue) 'then I felt a certain impatience to get to know a country that actually did complete its process of change'.

    Si (no accent) is often used as an intensifier in spoken language, usually preceded by pero. It emphasizes the following statement, often with an indignant or insistent tone, ¡(pero) si te oí la primera vez! 'but I heard you the first time!!' pero si vivimos muy bien. No necesitamos nada (Soledad Puértolas, Sp., dialogue) 'but we really do live well. We don't need anything', pero si mañana me voy al Perú y no vuelvo más (A. Bryce Echenique, Pe., dialogue; Sp. a Perú) 'but tomorrow I'm going to Peru and I'm not coming back'.


    I hope this makes clearer what I meant by 'sí used for emphasis', and I hope it's of more help to wannalearnstuff.
    Sorry, perhaps I didn't explain correctly what I meant. In fact, I didn't agree mainly with your example. However, now, I realise that there is also a disagreement concerning the role of the intensifiers. IMO, in the examples about "sí" (with accent) you quote from "A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish", the intensifier is not the "sí" but the fact that you are answering twice the same question: "Sí, María vendrá" corresponds to "Yes, María will come". Regarding the examples you quote about "si" (without accent), IMO they correspond to exceptions in which the accent has been avoided. Personally, I prefer not to avoid them. In effet, "pero si vivimos muy bien" maybe understood as "but if we live very well". Conversely, if I use the accent writing "Pero sí, vivimos muy bien" there is no doubt about it.

    Regards
     

    wannalearnstuff

    New Member
    USA, English
    Ustedes han estado muy util. Gracias.

    Hacer seguro que he comprendado todos las respuestas hasta aqui, aqui esta un resumen de todos que ha estado dicho.

    Si (con o sin acento) puede usado detras de "pero" hacer hincapié en algo, y resolver una duda sobre su declaracion. Tambien esta usado como "if"

    De es normalmente usado por "of" mismo lo esta en ingles.


    Y te usas Que ante todo mismo "that" en un declaracion o "what" en una pregunta. Tambien esta usado en los declaraciones comparativos como "Estas mas alto de yo" y expressar < y > (Mas que y menos que).

    Si he omitido algo, o si he hecho un error en mi español, corrige por favor!

    (If the Spanish in this post is so mangled as to be unintelligible, I apologize :) I'm only in second year Spanish class and had to use a bunch of words I had never seen before in translating this)
     

    garryknight

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    rayb said:
    the intensifier is not the "sí" but the fact that you are answering twice the same question: "Sí, María vendrá" corresponds to "Yes, María will come".
    To me, "Sí que vendrá" has a different meaning from "Sí, María vendrá", even though I'm very much a beginner at the language. After 'María no vendrá', it has more the feeling of 'Sure she'll come', or 'She will come!'. So it's not that it's answering the same question twice, it's negating a previous statement, and emphasising that negation.

    rayb said:
    In effet, "pero si vivimos muy bien" maybe understood as "but if we live very well". Conversely, if I use the accent writing "Pero sí, vivimos muy bien" there is no doubt about it.
    True. In the short amount of time that I've been studying the language, I've seen more of the former construction ('pero si...') than the latter. I wonder how many people use this type of construction in their speech and actually mean to say 'pero si..', and how many people use it and mean to say 'pero, sí...'.
     

    garryknight

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    I had to change the font in order to read your text on my screen. I hope it's still readable on yours. I'll quote your text in bold with my comments underneath.

    Hacer seguro que he comprendado todos las respuestas hasta aqui, aqui esta un resumen de todos que ha estado dicho.

    When you say 'hacer seguro', are you intending to say 'to make sure'? If so, you should say something like 'para estar seguro'. 'Comprender' is an -er verb, so the past participle is 'comprendido'. 'Aquí' has an accent over the 'i', but I understand that you might not know how to generate accents on your keyboard. Likewise, there should be an accent on 'está'. And as in my previous post, 'that' meaning 'which' is translated by 'lo que', so it would be 'todo lo que' (note singular 'todo'). And I'd say something like 'todo lo que me han dicho' - 'everything you've told me'.


    Si (con o sin acento) puede usado detras de "pero" hacer hincapié en algo, y resolver una duda sobre su declaracion. Tambien esta usado como "if"

    'Puede ser usado' for 'can be used', or better still, 'se puede usar'. Accent on 'detrás'. Again, 'to make' implies 'in order to make' so you need 'para' again: 'para hacer'. Accents needed on 'también' and 'está'. Instead of 'está usado', it would be a little better to say 'se usa': "También se usa como 'if'". This use of the passive voice ('it is used', literally
    'it uses itself') is quite common in Spanish and it's something that takes hardly any time to master and makes everything sound less stilted.

    And, yes, what you were saying is true, this is how 'si' (without an accent, meaning 'if') is used. But 'sí' (with an accent) doesn't need 'pero' in front of it. To show the two main uses of it:
    '¿Es que Helena viene hoy?' 'Sí, viene.' - 'Is Helena coming today?' 'Yes, she is.'
    'Helena no viene hoy.' 'Sí que viene' - 'Helena isn't coming today.' 'She is coming!'

    De es normalmente usado por "of" mismo lo esta en ingles.
    Again, 'se usa' sounds better than 'es usado'. And you'd say 'lo mismo' for the same, so 'lo mismo que en inglés'. And, yes, 'de' means 'of' in some circumstances. It can also be translated as 'for', 'from' and even as 'to' (e.g. 'Trato de ayudarle' - 'I'm trying to help you').

    Y te usas Que ante todo mismo "that" en un declaracion o "what" en una pregunta.
    I'm not entirely certain what you're saying here. 'Te usas' means something like 'you use to yourself'. If you mean 'you use', then you just say 'usas', or if you want to emphasize that it's you doing it, then you say 'tú usas'. But if I understand you correctly, then yes, you use 'que' or 'lo que' in a statement to mean 'that' or 'which'. And you use 'Qué' (but with an accent) at the start of a question or in a statement that contains an indirect question. I'm not sure, though, what you intended to say with 'todo mismo'; if you show me the English version of this sentence, I'll have a go at translating it.

    Tambien esta usado en los declaraciones comparativos como "Estas mas alto de yo" y expressar < y > (Mas que y menos que).

    Same comments as above apply to 'esta usado' and 'se usa'. But 'más alto que yo', not 'de yo'. 'Más de' is used for numerical comparisons, e.g. 'Tiene más de 5 hermanos'.

    Si he omitido algo, o si he hecho un error en mi español, corrige por favor!
    It's all very understandable, even if there are a few grammatical errors. I hope my corrections are useful. If there's anything you're not clear on, please ask.
     

    rayb

    Senior Member
    Chile - Spanish
    wannalearnstuff said:
    Ustedes han estado muy util. Gracias.

    Hacer seguro que he comprendado todos las respuestas hasta aqui, aqui esta un resumen de todos que ha estado dicho.

    Si (con o sin acento) puede usado detras de "pero" hacer hincapié en algo, y resolver una duda sobre su declaracion. Tambien esta usado como "if"

    De es normalmente usado por "of" mismo lo esta en ingles.


    Y te usas Que ante todo mismo "that" en un declaracion o "what" en una pregunta. Tambien esta usado en los declaraciones comparativos como "Estas mas alto de yo" y expressar < y > (Mas que y menos que).

    Si he omitido algo, o si he hecho un error en mi español, corrige por favor!

    (If the Spanish in this post is so mangled as to be unintelligible, I apologize :) I'm only in second year Spanish class and had to use a bunch of words I had never seen before in translating this)
    Let's return to basics:

    Si = if
    Sí = yes or itself

    Emphasizing is not so easy, I would not recommended at your level. In any case, "pero" = but, used before or after "sí" will emphasize or attenuate the "sí". Then, "pero sí" means "yes indeed". Conversely: "sí pero ..." means "yes but..."

    Finally, "qué" means what or why and has to be used with the double exclamation (¡!) or ponctuation signs (¿?).
     

    wannalearnstuff

    New Member
    USA, English
    omg its going to take me forever to get through that entire response garry but it looks very helpful TY SO MUCH :)

    and yes I dont know how to generate them so I only bother copy-pasting it from a word document with ñ's
     

    rayb

    Senior Member
    Chile - Spanish
    garryknight said:
    To me, "Sí que vendrá" has a different meaning from "Sí, María vendrá", even though I'm very much a beginner at the language. After 'María no vendrá', it has more the feeling of 'Sure she'll come', or 'She will come!'. So it's not that it's answering the same question twice, it's negating a previous statement, and emphasising that negation.



    True. In the short amount of time that I've been studying the language, I've seen more of the former construction ('pero si...') than the latter. I wonder how many people use this type of construction in their speech and actually mean to say 'pero si..', and how many people use it and mean to say 'pero, sí...'.
    1) IMO, emphasizing in "Sí, María vendrá", comes from the double afirmatif, not from the "sí" which is allways "yes". Is different in French, where "oui" is yes and "si" emphasizes the "oui" by replacimg it.

    2) IMO, "pero" before "si" is more used to emphasize that it's a conditional situation than to emphasize an afirmative response.

    Regards
     

    garryknight

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    rayb said:
    1) IMO, emphasizing in "Sí, María vendrá", comes from the double afirmatif, not from the "sí" which is allways "yes". Is different in French, where "oui" is yes and "si" emphasizes the "oui" by replacimg it.
    Yes, I agree with you. I think we're talking about two different things. My example was "Sí que vendrá", where the 'sí' emphasizes that the speaker disagrees with a previous negative statement.
     

    wannalearnstuff

    New Member
    USA, English
    I actually gave up on writing it in English first after a while so even I'm not quite sure now exactly what I intended some of it to mean, but you said

    'Trato de ayudarle' - 'I'm trying to help you'

    Why "ayudarle" and not "ayudarte"? Or were you just using the pronoun for usted instead of tu? And where does a translation of de as "to" fit into that sentance, as "ayudarle" already says "to help you"?

    Also, "ante todo" meant something which somehow I have already managed to forget but I know that in English it would have made sense putting that term next to "like".

    Also, why "se puede usar"? Is that also using the usted form and if so, would "te puedes usar" also work?
     

    jacinta

    Senior Member
    USA English
    I see that others have helped you out already but here are my suggestions:

    wannalearnstuff said:
    Ustedes han estado muy util. Ustedes me han ayudado mucho. Gracias.

    Hacer seguro que he comprendado todos las respuestas hasta aqui, aqui esta un resumen de todos que ha estado dicho. Para estar seguro de que he comprendido todas las respuestas hasta ahora, aquí está un resumen de todo lo que me han dicho.

    Si (con o sin acento) se puede usar después de "pero" para hacer hincapié en algo, y resolver una duda sobre su declaracion. También, "si "tiene significado de "if"
    De normalmente significa "of", semejante a ingles.


    Y te usas Que ante todo mismo "that" en un declaracion o "what" en una pregunta. Tambien esta usado en las declaraciones comparativas como "Eres más alto que yo" y expressar < y > (Mas que y menos que). (I don't understand this, expresar y?)

    Si he omitido algo, o si he hecho un error en mi español, corríjanlo por favor!


    (If the Spanish in this post is so mangled as to be unintelligible, I apologize :) I'm only in second year Spanish class and had to use a bunch of words I had never seen before in translating this)
    Good job, wannalearn! I just made some grammatical corrections. Some wording I would change but just so that you can see the main grammar use, I left it as you wrote it. Some I just left because I couldn't understand it. Maybe someone else will add some corrections for you.

    I also agree with rayb. You don't need to worry about the pero si business. You need to work on your basic skills first.

    Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:
     

    garryknight

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    wannalearnstuff said:

    'Trato de ayudarle' - 'I'm trying to help you'

    Why "ayudarle" and not "ayudarte"? Or were you just using the pronoun for usted instead of tu?
    I was just using the 'usted' form. The sentence was just an example, not aimed at you or anyone else. Most of the foreros use the 'tú' form with each other and I tend to do the same.

    wannalearnstuff said:

    And where does a translation of de as "to" fit into that sentance, as "ayudarle" already says "to help you"?
    Hmmm... It's more my way of thinking about it, now that I come to think about it. Although the English translation of the infinitive 'ayudar' is usually translated as 'to help', I tend to think of the Spanish 'ayudar' as 'help' since it seems to translate that way more often than it does as 'to help'. For example, 'Voy a ayudarte', 'I'm going to help you'. In this example, the 'ayudar' can't be translated literally as 'to help' as you'd end up with two 'tos'. And what would you want two tos for? :)

    wannalearnstuff said:

    Also, why "se puede usar"? Is that also using the usted form and if so, would "te puedes usar" also work?
    This was the bit that I wasn't sure I'd explained clearly. It's an example of the 'passive voice'. It's the equivalent of saying 'it can be used' as opposed to 'I can use it', or some other equivalent. Your example 'te puedes usar' would mean 'you can use yourself'. Here are some more examples of the passive voice:

    'Groundnut' se traduce como 'cacahuete' - 'Groundnut' is translated as 'cacahuete'.
    Se habla español aquí. - Spanish spoken here.
    Se dicen que Beckham es gran futbolista - It is said (they say) that Beckham is a great footballer
    La voz pasiva se usa en los ejemplos arriba. - The passive voice is used in the above examples.

    All of this is not to be confused with reflexive verb forms which look superficially similar. Here's an example of the latter, using 'lavarse':
    Él se lavaba las manos todas las mañanas. - He washed his hands every morning.
     

    wannalearnstuff

    New Member
    USA, English
    thanks for the explanation of the Spanish passive voice :) it had never even occured to me that the passive voice would not involve the verb estar due to its primarily being used with "is" in English. The problem of seemingly reflexive verbs which seemed to have no particular subject had been hanging me up in reading Spanish alot :(
     

    jacinta

    Senior Member
    USA English
    garryknight said:
    'Groundnut' se traduce como 'cacahuete' - 'Groundnut' is translated as 'cacahuete'.
    Hi garry,
    I know this is getting off topic (have to watch out for those pesky moderators), but I'm curious: What's a groundnut? I know that a peanut is a cacahuate so now I would like to know a "groundnut".
     

    wannalearnstuff

    New Member
    USA, English
    probably also a peanut, as a peanut is a nut that grows close to the ground (compared to most other nuts), and apparently has the same Spanish translation. Them Brits have some funny lingo.
     

    sibol

    Member
    spain spanish
    Aquí esta un resumen de todos que ha estado dicho
    aqui esta un resumen (I would say: Aquí hay un resumen.)
    de todos que ha estado dicho :cross: (If you meant to say “ everything that has been told” ). In Spanish would be: Todo lo que se ha dicho.

    Aquí esta un resumen de todos que ha estado dicho :cross: -> Aquí hay un resumen de todo lo que se ha dicho.

    Corrijan mi español, por favor. Yo sé no está como me gustaria estarlo
    .
    Correction -> Corrijan mi español, por favor. Sé que no está como me gustaría que estuviera.

    Lo mismo digo de mi Inglés. Correct my English, please. I know it isn’t as well as I would like it to be.
     

    jacinta

    Senior Member
    USA English
    sibol said:
    Lo mismo digo de mi Inglés. Correct my English, please. I know it isn’t as well as I would like it to be.
    Hola sibol,

    You ask for corrections so I will give you one here. You would not use well here. Well is an adverb. You mean to say good.

    "I know it isn't as good as I would like it to be."

    Saludos :) ,

    jacinta
     

    sibol

    Member
    spain spanish
    Thank you very much Jacinta.

    No sabes bien como agradezco tu corrección. Puede decirse que estoy aprendiendo Inglés con estos foros.

    Gracias de nuevo.
     
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