Singular/plural - 1 out of 5 children is/are ... 1 in 5 children is/are ...

[jade40]

Hello everyone,
I just saw on a poster today on the road with the statement '1 out of 5 children is sexually solicited online'. Although I'm pretty sure it is grammatically correct to use 'is' .....it doesn't look or sound right to me. It flows more naturally to say 'are'. I just wanted to verify that grammatically, its supposed to be with 'is' since it's referring to 1 child...??

Thanks,

Jade

 

[tatis]

I would say that the poster is correct. It is 'IS'.

 

[jimreilly]

One out of five is....
Twenty percent are....
Twenty out of a hundred are....

 

[Fez]

Yes you're right, "one child in 5 is" is grammatically correct. However, as you said, when speaking, it is such a common grammatical mistake to say for example "one in five children are", that it sounds strange for us to hear "one in five children is". Yet the correct sentence is "one in five children is" because take away the rest of the sentence and you have the basic sentence "one child is", which cannot be changed to "one child are". It's only because you put that plural in there to give more information that people get confused and use the plural "are".

 

[l3376876]

It's as clear as crystal that "is" is grammatically correct.

 

[jade40]

Thanks for all the quick responses!!

 

[gaer]

Hello everyone,
I just saw on a poster today on the road with the statement '1 out of 5 children is sexually solicited online'. Although I'm pretty sure it is grammatically correct to use 'is' .....it doesn't look or sound right to me. It flows more naturally to say 'are'. I just wanted to verify that grammatically, its supposed to be with 'is' since it's referring to 1 child...??

Thanks,

Jade

If it flows more naturally for you with "are", you have a lot of company. But "are" is wrong.

The problem is that the grammar contradicts logic. Obviously "one out of five" is not talking about one child bu many, 20 percent of all children.

"Everyone" (all, all people) is also plural, logically, but it is singular grammatically. Same problem.

Gaer

 

[gerardovox]

I know I am a latecomer but I was just having the same problem.
I don't think it is so clear cut.
#1 grammar is always catching up with current usage, and a quick googlefight reveals:
"1 in 5 children are" 1.960 hits "1 in 5 children is" 884 hits
"1 in 5 Americans are" 4540 hits "1 in 5 Americans is" 2950 hits
etc etc ad nauseum
I would argue on the basis of that (rather unscientific) survey that it is moving past the realm of "common mistake" right into "most native speakers agree" territory.

2.MSword spelling&grammar tool seems to favor the "are" version. That is extremely unfortunate if you happen to prefer the "is" version. Because even if it is right, the spell-checker is going to tell people it is wrong.
So people really have to be sure of their grammar when they are proofreading a long document to defy the suggestion to change it. Especially when logic and reason are also telling them to make the correction.
I think only one in 5 people are going to ignore it.

 

[Loob]

I agree with you, gerardovox, except that I don't think the plural with eg 1 in 5 was a mistake ...

One in five children are
One child in five is

 

[cuchuflete]

In isolation, that is to say with a single group of five, "1 in 5 is..." seems logically correct to me. I agree with Loob's open-mindedness, because most often "1 in 5" refers to a proportion of a larger group than five of anything.

Of the millions of English speakers, only one in five are apt to use the term 'goose milk cheese' to describe a rare delicacy.

In that foolish example, there are many ones and many fives. Thus the plural 'are' is appropriate.

 

[panjandrum]

Small changes in the wording make a big difference to how it feels - and I regret to say that how it feels is what governs whether I use a singular or plural verb.

One child in five ... sounds singular.
One in five children ... sounds plural.

One out of five children ... I'm not sure, now that I have to decide in an artificial context

 

[Redshade]

I am not usually a prescriptive uber-grammarian but
I have to say that I would not only always say "is" in this instance
but also feel obliged to correct anyone who used the "are" form.
This looks like an AE/BE argument.

 

[Loob]

This looks like an AE/BE argument.

Why do you say that, Redshade?

 

[Redshade]

Because I would have received a thick ear at school for using the "are" version.
I think it was gerardovox's research which linked the "are" form to "Americans" on an American search engine that persuaded me.
<<Leading off-topic.>>

 

[GreenWhiteBlue]

I think it was gerardovox's research which linked the "are" form to "Americans" on an American search engine that persuaded me.

Except that you have also seen comments from speakers in the United Kingdom who report the same willingness to use "are". Perhaps you are forgetting that the number of native speakers of English in the United States is approximately five times the number of native speakers of English found in Great Britain. One will therefore find considerably more uses of just about any form on an American site.


<<Responding to an off-topic point, now deleted.>>

 

[Ynez]

"is" wins when writing the numbers.

2.510 de "one in five children is".
861 de "one in five children are".

147 de "one in five children is" site:uk
397 de "one in five children are" site:uk

It seems that, in relation, British use more "are".

313 de "one out of five children is".
247 de "one out of five children are"

 

[Loob]

One child in five ... sounds singular.
One in five children ... sounds plural.

One out of five children ... I'm not sure, now that I have to decide in an artificial context

I've been thinking about panj's post 11, especially as I now (belatedly!) see that gerardovox's points about "one in five" were added to a thread with the title "1 out of 5...."

I don't think I say "one out of five x"; I only say "one in five x". But I say "two, three {etc} out of five x" in preference to "two, three {etc} in five x".

I suspect I am very strange

But it least it means panj's dilemma over "one out of five children" doesn't arise for me...

EDIT: Interesting googlestats, Ynez

 

[Ynez]

I suspect I am very strange

I think you are not that strange I was surprised to see more "one in five" than "one out of five", but now I understood the normal use, thanks to your comment.

 

[panjandrum]

Please try to keep to the thread topic.
If tempted to respond to something that is not on-topic, please do so either by private message, by referring to another thread on the topic, or by starting a new thread.
panjandrum
(Moderator)

 

[Thomas Tompion]

I think Cuchu makes a good point about one in five probably being plural, because if you only had five people, say, you'd say 'one of the five'.

However, I also accept that the further the verb is away from the one the greater the probable pull of the plural and its effect on the choice of verb form. That's a long-winded way of saying that I find I say 'one in five is dyslexic' but 'one in five of the magnificent Turkish janissaries are playing the cornemuse'.

I wouldn't raise an eyebrow, however, at 'one in five of the magnificent Turkish janissaries is playing the cornemuse'.

I would react in the same way - i.e. it could be is or are - to 'one out of five children', though it would, I suspect we are agreed, have to be 'one out of the five children is'.

I think it's a case where either will do perfectly well.

 

[Defence]

I agree with you, gerardovox, except that I don't think the plural with eg 1 in 5 was a mistake ...

One in five children are
One child in five is

Yeah, I'd say that's the best way to put it. Basically you need a noun in its plural form to use are.

 

[Loob]

Thanks, Defence

Welcome to English Only!

 

[Redshade]

Would not "one child in five is.." be a better construction?
I can't believe the debate has got this far.This is primary school stuff. "One child...is - subject of sentence is singular = singular verb formation .

 

[cuchuflete]

Would not "one child in five is.." be a better construction?
I can't believe the debate has got this far.This is primary school stuff. "One child...is - subject of sentence is singular = singular verb formation .

Primary school stuff is simple. Language may be less so.

We have measured the bellies of seventy-five children. Based on the measurements, we find that one child in five is obese. [What about the other seventy? ]
​

 

[Forero]

I agree with Loob, and I don't say "one out of five children". I think it "sounds" singular though. "One in five children" is plural because it means "one fifth of all children".

 

[Thomas Tompion]

We've been assuming that the was or is will be followed by an adjective, or adjectival phrase. However, often, surely, the predicate determines the choice for you.

Complements must agree with subjects in number and gender.

1. One in five children born is a Chinaman.

2. One in five children are little horrors.

I'm not very happy about 2. I think I'd change it to One in five children is a little horror.

Also when the is/are is followed by a noun or noun phrase I have little objection to the one-out-of-five form. Strange.

 

[MiaBorg]

Hello,

I cannot make up my mind whether this one takes singular or plural, can somebody help me please?

Is it "1 out of 5 teachers is" or is it "1 out of 5 teachers are"?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Gordonedi]

Hello, MiaBorg and welcome to the English Only forum !

Use "is" because it is the one that you are writing about, not the five.

"One out of five teachers" is singular.

 

[MiaBorg]

Thanks and thanks

 

[Loob]

It's not quite so clear-cut, Mia

See this previous thread:
1 out of 5 children is/are ... 1 in 5 ... singular/plural

 

[banana pancakes]

I don't know the grammar behind it but I would say that you can use both, I would even say that 'are' sounds more natural.

 

[curlyboy20]

I disagree, banana pancakes. Would "one out of 5 teachers are usually wrong" sound correct?

"One out of 5 teachers is usually wrong" sounds a lot better.

 

[banana pancakes]

It sounds fine to me. Like I said I'm just talking from a spoken English point of view and that can vary massively. But I wouldn't bat an eyelid at the use of 'are' in these cases.

 

[curlyboy20]

I'm just talking from a spoken English point of view and that can vary massively.

Good point, sorry I missed that It's very common to hear people make common mistakes which have unfortunately, in some cases, become the norm, as it were.

 

[banana pancakes]

Check out Loob's post to a thread about it - it's actually quite interesting.

And thinking about it, if you are talking about 'one in five teachers' surely you are talking indirectly about more than one teacher? If you surveyed 100 teachers about being overworked and 20 said they were overworked, then although you reduce the figures down to a smaller fraction, the fact remains that you are still referring to the 20 teachers in your survey.

If you only surveyed five teachers then I would say definitely to use 'is'.

Complicated!

 

[desert_fox]

1 out of 5 IS..
2 out of 5 ARE...

 

[curlyboy20]

Complicated indeed. I did check that thread out and there's more to this than meets the eye.

If you're surveying 5 teachers and only one of them is complaining about being overworked, I assume you'd say:

One out of 5 teachers is complaining about being overworked.
One in 5 teachers is complaning about being overworked.

*sigh*

 

[johndot]

Out of five teachers, one are wrong? Yeah, right.

 

[Sallyb36]

I agree with Johndot.
It should be one out of five teachers is...

 

[Arrius]

To my mind there is only one possiblilty when the subject is ONE: is.
Let us say that one out of/in five are etc. is a very common mistake that is spreading and will eventually become totally accepted as is the way with English. A similar mistake is neither X nor Y are coming to the party tonight, which should have is. None used to be exclusively singular, now none are... is quite acceptable alongside none is.. (obsolescent), and a number of people were killed is now the only possibility, although fifty years ago, Fowler, the grammarian, insisted that a number of should always be singular.

 

[johndot]

This cannot be right, surely? Did Fowler really say this, in this way?

In the sentence “A number of people xxx killed”, people were killed, a number was not.

 

[Arrius]

Yes he did, but he also recommended usages like his whereabouts is unknown with a singular noun, because you can only be in one place at one time, and hamstringed (which I have never seen or heard) intead of hamstrung, because it means cutting a muscle not stringing it like a bow, both of which preferences seem quite eccentric.

 

[taked4700]

Excuse me, but let me join in.

Firstly, let me make sure once again.

1. "One in five children are obese."

2. "One child in five is obese."

3. "One out of five children are obese."

4. "One child out of five is obese."

Are these sentences above idiomatic?
If so, the sentences below would be unidiomatic, wouldn't they?

5. "One in five children is obese."

6. "One child in five are obese."

7. "One out of five children is obese."

8. "One child out of five are obese."


Secondly, let me make an assumption.

This is the problem of what you see in the word 'one'.
If you see plurality, then you use 'are' and if singularity then 'is' is a natural choice.

What decides which you would see, singularity or plurality is the degree of figurativeness, in other words, when 'one' is modified with other word like 'only one' or 'one child', the degree of figurativeness is high, and it is natural to use 'is'. When 'five' is modified with other word like 'five children', then, 'are' sounds natural.

What do you say?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Nunty]

I'll put my comments in brown.

Excuse me, but let me join in.

Firstly, let me make sure once again.

1. "One in five children are obese." No. While some people may say this in informal speech, the correct form is "one in five children is obese".

2. "One child in five is obese." Correct.

3. "One out of five children are obese." No. Same comment as for sentence (1).

4. "One child out of five is obese." Correct.

Are these sentences above idiomatic?
If so, the sentences below would be unidiomatic, wouldn't they?

5. "One in five children is obese." Correct.

6. "One child in five are obese." No: "one child... is".

7. "One out of five children is obese." Correct.

8. "One child out of five are obese." No. Same comment as for sentence (6).


So, I'm afraid, your assumption does not follow.

Secondly, let me make an assumption.

This is the problem of what you see in the word 'one'.
If you see plurality, then you use 'are' and if singularity then 'is' is a natural choice.

What decides which you would see, singularity or plurality is the degree of figurativeness, in other words, when 'one' is modified with other word like 'only one' or 'one child', the degree of figurativeness is high, and it is natural to use 'is'. When 'five' is modified with other word like 'five children', then, 'are' sounds natural.

What do you say?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[panjandrum]

As you can see from the posts in this combined thread, opinions vary and no consensus can be found.
_________________________________________

I know it's off topic, but I can't let this pass without comment.

...
although fifty years ago, Fowler, the grammarian, insisted that a number of should always be singular.

Are you sure?

New Fowler's Modern English Usage says that "a number of" takes a plural verb: "the number of" takes a singular verb.

I'm sure, though I can't find it just now, that my older Fowler says the same.

 

[Arrius]

Fowler must have departed this life many decades ago and I was talking about a book by him that I possessed long, long ago - much has changed since. English changes faster than most languages.

 

[JulianStuart]

One fifth of the children over the age of ten ___ obese.

Note, the subject of this sentence is "one" (or "one fifth").

Please fill in the blank!

 

[curlyboy20]

I guess I would choose "are" because "one fifth" would be more than 1 child and therefore, it's a plural subject. Any other opinions?

 

[Loob]

New Fowler's Modern English Usage says that "a number of" takes a plural verb: "the number of" takes a singular verb.

I'm sure, though I can't find it just now, that my older Fowler says the same.

You're right, panj. Here it is in my second edition Fowler-revised-by-Gowers (1968) under the headword number

When the word number is itself the subject, it is a safe rule to treat it as singular when it has a definite article and plural when it has an indefinite. The number of people present was large, but A large number of people were present.

Since Arrius used the phrase "50 years ago", I haven't checked the 1908 Fowler*, but I imagine it said something similar.

Sorry, I couldn't let it go either

Oh, and to bring this post back on topic, I agree that we won't reach a consensus on "one out of X [plural noun] is/are". Which, as I mentioned earlier in this combined thread, I don't say - though I do say "one in X [plural noun] are".

The safest option is "one [singular noun] in X is".

*I have now. I couldn't find anything...

 

[johndot]

One fifth of the children over the age of ten ___ obese.

Note, the subject of this sentence is "one" (or "one fifth").

Please fill in the blank!

One-fifth of five children is one child. That child is obese.
One-fifth of ten children is two children. Those two are obese.
One-fifth of the population is obese.
One-fifth is a singular fraction.