Slovak: Je tri štvrte na …” OR “Sú tri štvrte na …

[Concise]

Hello,

It makes me mad that I cant decide whether both are correct or just one of them. I checked the web and both forms are used even in Slovak lessons organized by Slovak people.

Is anyone around who can confirm that not just both are used by Slovak people, but both are grammatically correct, too?

Ďakujem pekne!

 

[morior_invictus]

"Je tri štvrte na …"
"Sú tri štvrte na …"

You may find the following helpful:

1:00 Je jedna (hodina).
2:00 - 4:00 Sú dve/tri/štyri (hodiny).
5:00 - 12:00 Je päť/.../dvanásť (hodín).
1:15 (2:15,...) Je štvrť na jednu/dve/tri/.../dvanásť.
1:30 (2:30,...) Je pol jednej/druhej/tretej/.../dvanástej.
1:45 (2:45,...) Je tri štvrte na jednu/dve/tri/.../dvanásť

Source: slovake.eu

 

[Concise]

I had known this webpage before posting here. But as I wrote I had found both examples on the web within lessons made by Slovak people.

Let me refer to an example of the opposite version (“Sú tri štvrte na..”): Marek Hlavac-Slovak Language Lessons For Beginners PDF - PDFCOFFEE.COM

I had also checked who Mr Marek Hlavac could be, and he seems to be a qualified Slovak person, reference here: Marek Hlavac, MPP, Ph.D. and here Marek Hlavac

And Marek uses “sú tri štvrte na …”

 

[morior_invictus]

Let me refer to an example of the opposite version (“Sú tri štvrte na..”): Marek Hlavac-Slovak Language Lessons For Beginners PDF - PDFCOFFEE.COM

I flipped through the document above and found an error, so there may be more (something to bear in mind if you're planning on using it to learn Slovak):
Ten náš kolega bola v pondelok poobede taký pracovitý. = That (female) colleague of ours was so hard-working on Monday afternoon.

…should be either…:
Ten náš kolega bola v pondelok poobede taký pracovitý! = That (male) colleague of ours was so hard-working on Monday afternoon!

…or:
Tá naša kolegyňa bola v pondelok poobede taká pracovitá! = That (female) colleague of ours was so hard-working on Monday afternoon!

I had also checked who Mr Marek Hlavac could be, and he seems to be a qualified Slovak person, reference here: Marek Hlavac, MPP, Ph.D. and here Marek Hlavac
And Marek uses “sú tri štvrte na …”

Mr. Hlaváč was born in Liptovský Mikuláš (Slovakia) and has likely been living abroad since he was 16. Currently, he teaches economics in Italy. Trying to learn standard Slovak from him may be a bit risky as you will be relying on the accuracy and grammatical correctness of whatever information he put in his document(s) which may not be a good idea, in my opinion.

Maybe there are people* who say things like "sú tri štvrte na" but I assumed that your objective is to learn correct/standard Slovak and that’s what my original post was meant to reflect.

_________
* On reflection, I think I have, indeed, heard some people say "sú tri štvrte na..." but that does not make it grammatically correct. I was not able to find any discussion on this particular topic so other than the fact that only the "je" version is used as an example in Slovník súčasného slovenského jazyka (slovnik.juls.savba.sk), or in the book Slovenčina pre cudzincov (written by six ladies who seem to be experts in the field)(upjs.sk) and that searching Google for "sú tri štvrte na" returned only a few results, I have no other official publication handy that I could quote here to back up my post above and to prove to you that the "sú" version is grammatically incorrect.

 

[Concise]

Dear morior_invictus,

yes indeed, I’d like to learn the gramatically correct version of Slovak. You found a good example of ‘incorrectness’ to fully convince me that I should abandon that source in the future. And it seems to me that in the future one my primary sources to be slovake.eu.

My background is that I started to learn Slovak using a book partly written by authors being part of Slovak minority in Hungary (teachers in Slovak schools), partly Slovak authors from Slovakia (university teachers) , but also in this book I found - let me say - strange things. More examples which are not just simple typos.

On the other hand I am not so good at Slovak yet to check everything in books like Slovník súčasného slovenského jazyka. Nevertheless sometimes I try to check something here https://www.juls.savba.sk/ediela/msj/msj-lq-2pages.pdf.

To cut a long story short thanks for the confirmation. Now I must leave, preto už je tri štvrte na deväť.;-)

PS: out of curiosity, page 210, bottom here: https://content.slovakiana.sk/files...df/01B590CA-2CE3-4135-8422-5266195A09FB_P.pdf

 

[Enquiring Mind]

And I found, on page 224 of your linked "content.slovakiana" (1925) document:

Môžeme smelo tvrdiť, že tri štvrtiny ľudí nevie správne hovorit vo svojej materinskej reči ...

... a od tej doby sa veľa nezmenilo.

 

[Concise]

And I found, on page 224 of your linked "content.slovakiana" (1925) document:

... a od tej doby sa veľa nezmenilo.

Nice catch.

 

[morior_invictus]

[...] And it seems to me that in the future one my primary sources to be slovake.eu.

My background is that I started to learn Slovak using a book partly written by authors being part of Slovak minority in Hungary (teachers in Slovak schools), partly Slovak authors from Slovakia (university teachers) , but also in this book I found - let me say - strange things. More examples which are not just simple typos.

mic.iom.sk lists several free learning resources that learners may find helpful including First Aid In Slovak (have a look - maybe you will find something interesting there that matches your learning style).

Nevertheless sometimes I try to check something here https://www.juls.savba.sk/ediela/msj/msj-lq-2pages.pdf.

That one is definitely pretty good but, perhaps, a bit too technical. You could still use it as a reference, though (in the worst case scenario, you can always copy and paste the parts of the text you do not understand into Google Translate to get a rough idea of what the author is trying to say or just ask here).

Now I must leave, pretože už je tri štvrte na deväť.;-)

PS: out of curiosity, page 210, bottom here: https://content.slovakiana.sk/files...df/01B590CA-2CE3-4135-8422-5266195A09FB_P.pdf

A publication from 1925? In modern standard Slovak, "Pane prezidente, už sú tri štvrte na dvanástu. . ." would be rendered as "Pán prezident, už je tri štvrte na dvanásť. . ."

 

[numerator]

I would write "trištvrte" as one word.
I agree that it takes the singular.

 

[Concise]

"Je tri štvrte na …"
"Sú tri štvrte na …"

May I step forward?

When we use “o” in the answer of “At what time?” “o” goes with locative.

“O piatej hodine.”

And not with accusative like in case of “o chvíľu” or “O päť minút bude osem”.

Why do “štvrť” and “tri štvrte” keep their nominative form?

I mean why are both “O štvrte na šesť.” and “O troch štvrtiach na šesť.” incorrect? Is there any logical explanation, or they are just as they are?

 

[francisgranada]

I mean why are both “O štvrte na šesť.” and “O troch štvrtiach na šesť.” incorrect? Is there any logical explanation, or they are just as they are?

In my opinion here the preposition "o" does not refer directly to the noun "štvrť", but to the implicit noun "čas". Thus “O štvrť na šesť” practically means "O čase (locative) štvrť na šesť" (= At the time ...)

This may be also the explanation for "Je tri štvrte na …". I.e. it implicitly means "Čas je (singular) tri štvrte na …" (= The time is ....)

 

[vianie]

"O čase (locative) štvrť na šesť" (= At the time ...)

Czech uses this preposition also in this context:

O Vánocích budeme u babičky. We will be at grandma's for Christmas. Na Vianoce budeme u starej mamy.

 

[Concise]

Let me continue:
1. “O pol siedmej” je správe vyjadrenie, pretože “pol” je nesklonná.

2. Evidently in “O piatej hodine” there is no reference to “čas”.

3. “Päť minút pred sedmou.” => “O päť minút pred sedmou.”, not because there is a hidden reference to “čas”, but because normally “päť” is not inflected, although there exists other forms like “piatich”, see https://www.eduself.sk/slovensky-jazyk/tvary-slova/päť.

Did I write 3 correct sentences?