some of which were only vs some of them only

Sapere_Aude

Senior Member
Persian
Is this deduction correct?


1. This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of which were only recently discovered.

--Relative Clause

2. This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of them were only recently discovered.

-- Absolute Phrase
 
  • velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    2 The phrase clearly refers to the noun phrase "all known subatomic particles", so it isn't what I would understand as an absolute construction.

    I'd call the phrase a free modifier of some kind, not sure which :). An absolute phrase modifies a whole clause, not one element of it, (and you can usually optionally add "with" at the beginning of it).
     

    Sapere_Aude

    Senior Member
    Persian
    2 The phrase clearly refers to the noun phrase "all known subatomic particles", so it isn't what I would understand as an absolute construction.

    I'd call the phrase a free modifier of some kind, not sure which :). An absolute phrase modifies a whole clause, not one element of it, (and you can usually optionally add "with" at the beginning of it).
    nominative absolute: a construction in English consisting of a noun in the common case or a pronoun in the nominative case joined with a predicate that does not include a finite verb and functioning usually as a sentence modifier but also sometimes capable of being construed as the modifier of a particular word in the sentence (as her head erect in “she walked along, her head erect” or he being absent in “he being absent, no business was transacted”)

    Definition of NOMINATIVE ABSOLUTE
     
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    Forero

    Senior Member
    Is this deduction correct?


    1. This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of which were only recently discovered.

    --Relative Clause

    2. This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of them were only recently discovered.

    -- Absolute Phrase
    Yes, "some of which ..." is a relative clause. It means the same as "of which some ...", and "some of them ..." is indeed an absolute construction, not a relative clause.
     

    nightowl666

    Senior Member
    Mandarin
    Please look at this: "This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of them only recently discovered." The bold part can be called "absolute construction". If there is a preposition before "some", say" with some of them recently discovered", then this is not called "absolute construction."
     

    Man_from_India

    Senior Member
    India
    Please look at this: "This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of them only recently discovered." The bold part can be called "absolute construction". If there is a preposition before "some", say" with some of them recently discovered", then this is not called "absolute construction."
    "with some of them recently discovered" - I don't think it is an absolute construction.
     

    Thomas Tompion

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Please look at this: "This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of them only recently discovered." The bold part can be called "absolute construction". If there is a preposition before "some", say" with some of them recently discovered", then this is not called "absolute construction."
    That use of 'with' is a ugly device employed quite frequently by inexpert writers, to be avoided, in my view.
     

    nightowl666

    Senior Member
    Mandarin
    "This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of them only recently discovered."

    As Velisarius said, the bold is not an absolute clause. Such clauses are/can-be free standing:
    The war being over, the troops returned home.

    The first is an absolute clause.
    The war being over, the troops returned home. This one is an absolute clause as well.
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    Sometimes the subject of an absolute phrase is a part of an element in the main clause, for example:

    The dog lay on the mat, his chin on his paws.

    However, his chin on his paws doesn't simply tell us more about the dog but also about how he lay on the mat. It could be phrased as "(with) his chin being on his paws".


    In my opinion, some of them only recently discovered simply tells us more about the particles:

    This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of them only recently discovered.

    It couldn't be phrased as "with some of them (being) only recently discovered". One of the characteristics of a nominative absolute is that it may be moved around in the sentence.

    Some of them only recently discovered, this model explained all known subatomic particles.:cross: Bad syntax.
     

    Forero

    Senior Member
    nominative absolute: a construction in English consisting of a noun in the common case or a pronoun in the nominative case joined with a predicate that does not include a finite verb and functioning usually as a sentence modifier but also sometimes capable of being construed as the modifier of a particular word in the sentence (as her head erect in “she walked along, her head erect” or he being absent in “he being absent, no business was transacted”)

    Definition of NOMINATIVE ABSOLUTE
    This is the definition as I know it, though I prefer not to call it "nominative".
     

    Man_from_India

    Senior Member
    India
    There seems to be some confusion regarding the Absolute construction. It is very simple. When a non finite clause (EXCEPTION: infinitive clause) has an over subject of its own, it is called Absolute construction. So it is a subordinate clause. Syntactically it is not related to the main clause and functions as supplement.

    With the machine still running, it is about time to get your work done. [the bold part is not an Absolute construction]
    The war being over, the troops returned home. [the bold part is an Absolute construction]
    This model explained all known subatomic particles, some of them recently discovered. [the bold part is an Absolute construction]
    The dog lay on the mat, his chin on his paws. [the bold part is not an Absolute construction]
     
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